Jesse: I can think of no better reason to move
than to be a part of a local church.
You know, we had a young man -
this was when the church was meeting in our home.
We met at 9:00 a.m.
and there was a knock on the door at 8:30 I think.
And so we went and opened the door
and there was a young man there.
I introduced myself to him and welcomed him.
And I asked him where he grew up.
And he said he grew up in Houston.
And I said, "Where do you live now?"
He said, "Houston."
I said, "Did you drive here this morning?"
And he said, "Yes."
And he said, "I didn't know of a church in my area."
And at the time, he had reached out to HeartCry.
And the question he asked is,
"Do you of a good church in Texas?"
So they mentioned our church.
And he showed up at the door.
And he drove up from Houston to our church
for three or four months every weekend.
He'd bring friends up.
And eventually [he] moved up there
and is still a part of the church to this day.
All that being said,
I think there is no level of commitment
we should not be willing to make
to be a part of a biblical church.
The question I would put first forward is
are you sure there's not a biblical church in your area?
Because of course, there's biblical churches in Houston.
And I want us to be careful that we're not
creating in our mind our ideal church
with our ideal pastor and our ideal
growth in the church and maturity in the church.
And creating a scenario where,
yeah, there may only be two churches in the world
that meet your understanding of the church.
So there's two sides to this I think we need to be careful of.
Have you created such a level of wanting
in the church from the things
you've seen on the Internet or in other churches
that you just can't find the ideal church?
Well, there probably is one around you you could find.
But you take like up in Maine,
the Fellowship Conference New England there.
And for so long, there weren't churches.
We looked for them.
And so they planted a church up there.
And if you find yourself in a situation like that,
then absolutely, I can think of no better reason
to pack up everything, sell, and move
to go be a part of a local church
because you need to be a part of a local church.
Do that carefully, prayerfully,
with patience, seeking the Lord.
I think what you guys have done
on I'll Be Honest is here are some other churches.
And you can't always speak to the life of the church,
but here are some recommendations.
Make sure you've exhausted that
before you just pack up and leave.
But yes, if you can't find one,
no better reason to move than for a local church.
Mack: Well, I would counsel them cautiously.
I have made the statement I think
in that sermon you referred to
that I preached years ago
on the importance of the local church.
I remember making a statement:
if you live where there's no biblical church
and you can move,
move and get to a church.
Now, there's a lot of things that can affect that.
A man has a good job and responsibilities
and he doesn't even know if he could
get a job where he is going.
He's got to evaluate that and be wise -
not rash.
:He who hastens with his feet sins," the Bible says.
So wisely, cautiously...
But all things being equal,
(incomplete thought)
Single people - this is easier for them
because they see there's no church where they are,
they've truly searched
and they know of biblical churches,
and it's easy for them to uproot and move.
I have encouraged young people.
Look, you're a single man,
you're a single lady,
and you have the desire to go be in a biblical church.
We know that's Scriptural,
so can you do it?
Is there a way that you can do this?
So if they're moving from no church
to a biblical church,
that's only a good thing.
For families it's more complicated.
There's more to deal with.
Can you find a job?
I don't think
if a family of seven decides in one month
to move and join a biblical church
and he doesn't have a job,
and suddenly, six months no income,
and everybody's having to take care of them,
probably it's not a wise approach.
Wisdom. Wisdom comes with God's will
and true faith where He will provide.
But as a general rule,
if Christians can move [from] where there's no church and get to one,
that's always better.
Now, I would qualify that by saying
I've seen people leave churches
that are basically biblical
just because they love some guy's ministry
and they say I want to be under him. I'm moving.
Well, there can be immaturity in that
and rashness is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
Self-control is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
So, they ought to seek counsel from godly people.
And they ought to ask the Lord,
Lord, I don't want to make a mistake.
I want to do Your will. Do You want us to go?
I know You want us in a biblical church.
Is this the right direction?
And I just want to do Your will.
Lord, You open the doors.
Show me and keep me back
from presumptuous sins.
Clint: But to become a part of a church,
as in relocate to become a part of a church,
that's a difficult situation.
If one can't be started where you're at,
if there aren't other Christians there
to start a home church,
then you're in a difficult spot.
I know several churches
that have started from home churches.
I believe the Denton church started out in a home.
I believe the Kirksville church
started out in a home.
John Breshears in Warsaw has had a home church for decades
and functioned in that capacity.
Highway M Chapel started out in the Rages' home.
And so, who knows what God would do
eventually long-term with a small group
meeting in a home.
So there's that opportunity there,
that possibility there to start a home church.
To pack up and move to a place
to be a part of a church
that's already in existence,
I view that from two perspectives.
There's the perspective of the people
that would be moving/relocating,
and my heart goes out to them.
I sympathize for them.
They so want to be a part of a vibrant church
and be under pastors
and have themselves under the care of shepherds
and being preached to.
And so to move to a church
to become a part of it,
you've got the perspective of those
who want to be in that church,
want to move to that church.
Then you also have the perspective
of the elders who would be receiving
the new congregants.
Those elders - they have got some
cautions in their mind.
They realize that whenever a person
arrives in their congregation,
that person comes with some baggage.
That person comes with a background,
with beliefs, with past experiences,
with personalities and traits
and that person is going to become
a part of their congregation
which at that point in time might be
in peace and harmony,
and there might be a lot of love
and service among the people,
and the pastor might be free of problems.
So when someone moves to a church
from the perspective of the elders,
they've got a little bit more to consider
and they're a little bit more fearful maybe
just wondering how things might go now
as a result of someone moving there.
Kevin: But when looking for another church,
looking to move,
I'd recommend visit it first.
Keep listening online. Get a flavor of it.
Go and speak to the pastor.
If there's things you don't agree with,
don't try and jump through hoops
as in if it's something big to you,
because if there's a problem there
that is a big thing to you,
you're just going to cause trouble there.
Justin: I would say the main thing
is people can easily over the Internet
have a false view of a church,
an unrealistic view of a church
where everything's romantic, everything's perfect.
And you're only hearing the mouthpiece in a certain church.
You're not seeing the arms. You're not seeing the feet.
You're not seeing the body.
You're only hearing the mouth.
And that can be very, very deceiving at times.
Mack: Well, I've seen it in situations
with people that are hyperly critical.
They're immature and they're perfectionists.
And they can never stay in a church
because within two months
they're seeing the flaws, the imperfections,
and they have a critical spirit.
And they end up not being able
to serve there and live there
and they'll end up criticizing the leadership
and possibly causing division and then they leave.
And they can never stay in a church.
Nothing's ever good enough.
That's a very bad thing.
And people that are church hoppers,
or as somebody said, steeple-chasers -
church to church to church to church -
they're never going to be stable.
One verse in the Old Testament:
unstable as water, thou shalt not prosper.
So, one of the glories of the Christian life
is every church has flaws
or weaknesses.
Some of the biggest admonitions
and exhortations in the New Testament
is bearing with one another,
forgiving one another,
being patient with one another.
Well, all those things presuppose imperfections.
And so that's part of growing in grace.
See, if you walk alone
and you're a lone ranger,
well, you won't sin... you will,
but I mean, you won't struggle
because you won't have to put up with people.
Kevin: Christians, or professing Christians
moving house even to be part of a good church -
we've had good experiences of this.
We've had bad experiences of this.
The good experiences, the people are teachable.
They come with a humble spirit.
They may have many problems
because otherwise, if they had
the teaching where they were,
they'd stay where they were in all that growth,
but they come to us
and then over time you see them grow and so forth,
but they come with a teachable spirit.
But you tend to have problems
when people come with a proud spirit,
an unteachable spirit.
Because if you've been not part of a church,
if you're in an area where the churches,
you find them unbiblical,
you can look like a spiritual giant.
You can be in a church,
you come across good teaching - the true Gospel,
and you can suddenly look like a spiritual giant
to people [where] you're at,
but then you move to another city
to be part of a good church,
but now here, they may not even be saved.
Or they may be saved - this person,
but they're no longer a giant anymore.
But sometimes you get people,
they want this reputation of being this giant,
instead of coming teachable
saying, well, I don't know anything,
they want to be prominent.
Problems are caused there.
So come teachable.
Sometimes people have this attitude
where you're preaching a sermon
and they kind of just sit there smug.
And there's not this disciple coming to Jesus' feet.
There's not a proper attitude.
It's like they know everything.
They're too proud to even show people
(incomplete thought).
So, certainly don't go to another church
as if they're an American football team
signing a new quarterback.
Because that's not who the person is.
As far as things like infant baptism,
every time a new person came in,
I wasn't trying to get them to one side
trying to sort them out over this.
That's where you tend to have the problems with people
where they have something that's a big issue to them,
some secondary thing like that,
and they're always trying to sort other people out.
Definitely don't move. You'll just cause problems
if there's some issue there.
But yet, someone must be teachable
if they're learning.
They must realize they're not going
as a spiritual giant,
but they're going to learn.
Clint: Addressing the people
who have the desire to move to a church,
they need to make sure
that their motivation is right.
There are a lot of religious groupies.
There are a lot of people who follow men.
Someone who has a prominent ministry,
someone who's on the Internet,
someone who's vibrant and powerful
in the way of speaking and preaching.
They have a tendency to draw people to themselves.
And there are people that actually follow
men from church to church -
relocate with them.
Surely that's not a good motivation,
but when someone is following a man,
sooner or later they're going to realize
as someone once said,
"the best of men are men at best."
And they're going to see flaws.
They're going to find issues.
They're going to be disappointed in some way
if they're following a man.
Or, if that man is removed, taken away,
and they're left in the church,
now they've lost the draw that brought them there.
And many times, problems erupt after that fact
because the motivation was wrong.
They followed an individual.
And what we need to realize
is there's no such thing as a perfect church.
The best church that you can imagine right now,
it's functioning vibrantly,
there seems to be peace,
they're doing this, they're doing that,
they're involved in great and mighty activities,
maybe even on a world scale,
the person that comes there
with that high of an expectation
of a man or a ministry
will soon be disillusioned
because they'll realize
these people are only people.
And this church is made up of people
and such a broad mixture of personalities
that may or may not get along all the time.
And so, it's easy in those circumstances
to lose that element of love
when you're there for a man.
And it's that love that is the bond of unity, isn't it?
And peace.
And so those are some thoughts
that I have along those lines.
James: If someone is thinking about moving for a church,
how important is it for them to visit that church
prior to actually committing to move?
Clint: I think it's important
from the standpoint of open conversation.
There may or may not be a lot
that's revealed during that time.
I've heard of people coming to visit a church
prior to their moving there
and even spending days with the pastor in his home,
and then in the end,
it didn't save the situation.
Problems arose anyway.
But it seems like for the sake of open communication
and getting to know one another a bit better,
it seems like that would be necessary.
It would be that way with a job, wouldn't it?
If you were thinking about relocating
and opening a business somewhere,
you would spy out the land.
You'd go there ahead of time
and gather some data
and make an intelligent decision based on that.
But a church is so much more important
and so different from a business
because a church is a living organism.
It's a body - the body of Christ with people.
And it's functioning in that capacity.
The Apostle uses that illustration so aptly -
eyes and ears and a Head.
It's a body - a functioning, living organism.
So, so much more important
to go and talk openly about it.
Justin: It could be that the Lord
wants to do something in your own town,
in your own city wherever you're from,
that moving isn't always the solution.
It could be that you're sensing a need,
but you're seeing the solution in moving.
And the solution isn't necessarily in moving.
It's in seeking the Lord and waiting
and saying, Lord, what might You want to do
here where I'm at?
Don: If you're in a place
where you don't have a place to worship
and people to meet with,
you better find a place where you can
find a church.
Let's not look for a job first
and then look for the church.
Let's look for the church first, and then find a job.
James: I realize a lot more could be said,
but this is simply the content that I had
and was able to put together.
And I hope that if you're out there
and you don't have a church,
this in some way helps point you
to the importance of being part of a local church.
And in many ways, any online ministry
is trying to work itself out of having viewers.
Meaning, the goal is less traffic to a website
because you're wanting to direct people
away from a website to a local church,
to being committed there,
to hearing sermons there.
As one of the brother's mentioned in this video,
obviously Internet ministries
can be supplemental and helpful,
but oh how important it is to be committed
to the local body of believers.