YOU TOO CAN SIGN UP FOR THE NEWSLETTER AT SIGNUP.AXIOS.COM.
THAT DOES IT FOR ME.
"MORNING JOE" STARTS RIGHT NOW.
>>> I THINK THAT WILLIAM TAYLOR
WAS A VERY IMPRESSIVE WITNESS
AND WAS VERY DAMAGING TO THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. FIRST OF ALL, AS YOU POINTED
OUT, HE TOOK VERY COPIOUS NOTES
AT ALMOST EVERY CONVERSATION
WHEN HE PUT QUOTES IN HIS
OPENING STATEMENT, HE SAID THOSE
WERE DIRECT QUOTES FROM WHAT WAS
SAID.
SAID. IT ALSO DOESN’T HURT THAT HE HAS
A VOICE LIKE EDWARD R. BURROW,
SO HE’S A PRETTY IMPRESSIVE
PRESENCE UP THERE AND VERY
NONPOLITICAL.
NONPOLITICAL. HE WENT OUT OF HIS WAY TO TALK
ABOUT WHAT HE KNEW, WHAT HE WAS
SPECIFICALLY TESTAMENT TOO TO.
THE ONLY THING HE TALKED ABOUT
IT WAS IN THE U.S. NATIONAL
SECURITY INTERESTS TO SUPPORT
QUEUE UKRAINE
QUEUE UKRAINE UKRAINE AND HE WASN’T TAKING A
POSITION.
POSITION. >> WELCOME TO "MORNING JOE."
IT’S THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 14th.
WE HAVE THE WHITE HOUSE REPORTER
FROM THE ASSOCIATED PRESS,
JONATHAN LEMIRE.
JONATHAN LEMIRE. THE HOST OF THE POLITICS NATION
AND PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL
ACTION NETWORK, REVEREND AL
SHARPTON.
SHARPTON. NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT HEIDI
PRESIDENT,
PRESIDENT, AND MATT MILLER.
AND HISTORIAN AND AUTHOR OF SOUL
OF AMERICA AND ROTH JER’S
PROFESSOR AT VANDERBILT
UNIVERSITY JON MEACHAM IS WITH
US.
US. JOE, IT ALL STARTED IN OPEN
TESTIMONY YESTERDAY, WHAT A DAY.
>> WELL, ANYBODY THAT WAS
EXPECTING A REPEAT OF THE
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT MUELLER
WOULD HAVE BEEN SURPRISED BY
WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY.
WE HAD SOME NEW REVELATIONS,
SOME PRETTY SHOCKING
REVELATIONS, AND ALSO, THOUGH,
MAINLY A LOT OF STEADY TESTIMONY
THAT CONTINUES TO BLOWHOLES IN
THE REPUBLICANS AND THE WHITE
HOUSE’S DEFENSE.
HOUSE’S DEFENSE. SO WE’LL GET TO THAT IN A LITTLE
BIT.
BIT. IT IS SOMETHING, THOUGH, HOW
REPUBLICANS ARE CHASING THEIR
TAILS AND COMING UP WITH
LAUGHABLE DEFENSES THAT WILL,
ONCE AGAIN, BE PROVEN FALSE IN
THE COMING DAYS.
>> THE REVELATION FROM
YESTERDAY’S IMPEACHMENT HEARING
THAT DIRECTLY IMPLICATES
PRESIDENT TRUMP IN THE UKRAINE
SCANDAL.
SCANDAL. IT CAME FROM AMBASSADOR BILL
TAYLOR WHO TESTIFIED ALONGSIDE
STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL GEORGE
KENT IN THE PROBE’S FIRST PUBLIC
HEARING YESTERDAY.
HEARING YESTERDAY. DURING HIS OPENING STATEMENT,
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR TESTIFIED
ABOUT A JULY 26th PHONE
CONVERSATION THAT HAPPENED JUST
ONE DAY AFTER TRUMP’S
CONTROVERSIAL CALL WITH THE
PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE.
WATCH.
WATCH. >> IN THE PRESENCE OF MY STAFF,
AT A RESTAURANT, AMBASSADOR
SONDLAND CALLED PRESIDENT TRUMP
AND TOLD HIM OF HIS MEETINGS IN
KIEV.
KIEV. THE MEMBER OF MY STAFF COULD
HEAR PRESIDENT TRUMP ON THE
PHONE ASKING AMBASSADOR SONDLAND
ABOUT THE INVESTIGATIONS.
AMBASSADOR AND IS LOND TOLD
PRESIDENT TRUMP THE UKRAINIANS
WERE READY TO MOVE FORWARD.
FOLLOWING THE CALL WITH
PRESIDENT TRUMP, THE MEMBER OF
MY STAFF ASKED AMBASSADOR
SONDLAND WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP
THOUGHT ABOUT UKRAINE.
AMBASSADOR SONDLAND RESPONDED
THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP CARES MORE
ABOUT THE INVESTIGATIONS OF
BIDEN, WHICH GIULIANI WAS
PRESSING FOR.
PRESSING FOR. >> TWO SOURCES TELL NBC NEWS
THAT THE AIDE WHO OVERHEARD THE
PHONE CALL INSIDE THAT UKRAINIAN
RESTAURANT IS DAVID HOLMES, THE
COUNSELOR FOR PARTICULAR AFFAIRS
AT THE U.S. EMBASSY IN UCREPE.
HE
HE UKRAINE.
UKRAINE. HE IS EXPECTED TO TESTIFY BEHIND
CLOSED DOORS TOMORROW.
SHOULD BE INTERESTING.
>> WELL, I MEAN, WHAT’S GOING TO
BE REALLY INTERESTING --
>> WERE THEY ON A BURNER PHONE?
I MEAN WHAT PHONE WERE THEY ON?
>> WHAT’S SO FUNNY IS THE
REPUBLICANS ARE NOW GOING BACK
TO WHAT THEY TRIED AT THE
BEGINNING OF THIS PROCESS WITH
THE WHISTLEBLOWER.
THE WHISTLEBLOWER. AND AT THE BEGINNING OF THE
PROCESS THEY SAY IT’S HEARSAY,
IT’S HEARSAY, YOU CAN’T TRUST
THE HEARSAY.
THE HEARSAY. POOR LINDSEY, OFFICIALWHERE HE W
LAW SCHOOL DIDN’T HAVE A HEARSAY
CLASS.
CLASS. AND THEN THEY ROLLED OUT A
PLETHORA OF EVIDENCE THAT SAYS
IT WASN’T HEARSAY.
SO WHAT DID THEY THEN SAY?
WE CAN’T MOVE FORWARD UNTIL WE
HEAR THE HEARSAY.
WE CAN’T MOVE FORWARD UNTIL WE
GET THE WHISTLE-BLOWER HERE WHO
THEY WERE SAYING HAD HEARSAY.
WILLIE, THE SAME THING IS GOING
TO HAPPEN HERE NOW, THE PHONE
CALL, IT’S SECONDHAND, THIRD
HAND, FOURTH HAND, THIS IS
TERRIBLE, THIS IS STUPID.
YOU CAN SEE IT AS MY OLD
PROFESSOR PEARSON WOULD SAY,
LIKE A FREIGHT TRAIN SLOWLY
COMING AT YOU OUT OF THE MIST.
YOU KNOW WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN.
THEY’RE GOING TO HEAR TESTIMONY
FROM THE PERSON THAT WAS AT THE
TABLE AND IT WILL NO LONGER BE
HEARSAY.
HEARSAY. SO THE DOG CONTINUES TO CHASE
ITS TAIL AND ALL WE CAN DO IS
SIT BACK, LOOK DOWN AMUSED,
SHAKING OUR HEADS.
BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS HAVE NO
DEFENSE.
DEFENSE. >> AND LET’S REMEMBER WE DON’T
EVEN HAVE TO WAIT FOR THAT.
THE HEARSAY ARGUMENT BLEW UP
WHEN LIEUTENANT COLONEL VINDMAN
TESTIFIED, WHEN HE GAVE A
DEPOSITION, BECAUSE HE WAS ON
THE PHONE CALL, IT WAS FIRST
HAND.
HAND. LET’S ADD IN SOMETHING ELSE ON
THE HEARSAY QUESTION.
A LOT OF THE FIRST HAND
WITNESSES HAVE BEEN BLOCKED FROM
TESTIFYING IN THESE PROCEEDINGS.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> BLOCKED BY THE WHITE HOUSE
AND THE STATE DEPARTMENT.
SO THE HEARSAY ARGUMENT DOES NOT
HOLD UP.
HOLD UP. MATT MILLER, SOME OF THE OTHER
ARGUMENTS MADE YESTERDAY THE AID
WAS RELEASED.
WAS RELEASED. WAS RELEASED BECAUSE THE
WHISTLE-BLOWER REPORT CAME OUT
AND THE HAND WAS FORCED -- THE
WHITE HOUSE WAS FORCED.
ALSO THAT UKRAINE DIDN’T KNOW
THE AID HAD BEEN HELD UP, THAT’S
BLOWN UP WE KNOW BY REPORT FRRGT
FROM THE "NEW YORK TIMES."
ARGUMENT AFTER ARGUMENT WHEN YOU
DON’T HAVE THE FACTS ON YOUR
SIDE, WHEN YOU KNOW YOU’RE IN A
CORNER, YOU PRESENT THESE
ARGUMENTS TO THE PUBLIC WHO MAY
NOT HAVE HEARD THEM ALREADY THAT
WE ALL KNOW FROM REPORTING FRAND
FROM FIRST-HAND TESTIMONY HAVE
BEEN BLOWN UP AND UNDERMINED
ALREADY.
ALREADY. >> I WAS SURPRISED HOW
RESPONSIVE THE REPUBLICAN
RESPONSE WAS.
RESPONSE WAS. IF YOU’VE WATCHED REPUBLICAN
CONSPIRACY THEORIES IN THE PAST,
BEN GAAS GHAZI OR FAST AND
FURIOUS, YOU KNOW, THEY USUALLY
WILL TAKE ONE CONSPIRACY THEORY
AND STICK WITH IT.
YESTERDAY THEY WERE PICK ALL
THESE POINTS AND NOT WEAVING
THEM TOGETHER IN ANY COHERENT
NARRATIVE.
NARRATIVE. I THOUGHT THAT WAS A PROBLEM FOR
THEM.
THEM. I THOUGHT THIS NEW INFORMATION
THAT AMBASSADOR TAYLOR TOFD AND
A MEMBER OF HIS STAFF WILL
TESTIFY TO TOMORROW WAS
DEVASTATING.
DEVASTATING. NUMBER ONE IT KNOCKS OUT THIS
NEW ARGUMENT THEY WERE TRYING TO
ADVANCE THAT THE PRESIDENT JUST
CARED ABOUT CORRUPTION IN
UKRAINE.
UKRAINE. WHICH WAS ABSURD.
IF YOU READ THE CALL TRANSCRIPT
HE DOESN’T CARE ABOUT CORRUPTION
IN UKRAINE.
IN UKRAINE. HE ONLY CARES ABOUT JOE BIDEN.
BUT I THINK IT WAS REALLY
IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT REALLY JAMS
GORDON SONDLAND WHO WILL BE A
KEY WITNESS.
KEY WITNESS. BECAUSE HIS PREVIOUS TESTIMONY
SAID DIDN’T KNOW, HAD HE NO IDEA
THAT BURISMA AND JOE BIDEN, HE
NEVER HEARD ANYONE TALK ABOUT
JOE BIDEN UNTIL AFTER THE CALL
TRANSCRIPT WAS RELEASED IN
SEPTEMBER.
SEPTEMBER. AND NOW YOU’VE GOT GORDON
SONDLAND, A WITNESS WHO’S GOING
TO COME IN AND SAY THAT IS FLAT
OUT UNTRUE.
OUT UNTRUE. I THINK IT PUTS GORDON SONDLAND
IN A REALLY DIFFICULT POSITION.
IF I WERE HIM I’D BE WORRY ABOUT
COMING CLEAN AND TELLING THE
TRUTH ABOUT WHAT I KNOW ABOUT MY
CONVERSATIONS WITH THE PRESIDENT
WHEN I COME UP NEXT WEEK.
>> HE’S GOT TO WORRY ABOUT
PERJURY.
PERJURY. HE’S ALSO GOING TO WORRY ABOUT
LYING UNDER OATH.
THE GUY DOES NOT WANT TEND TO UP
IN JAIL BECAUSE HE LIED FOR
DONALD TRUMP.
DONALD TRUMP. HE CAN JUST CALL MICHAEL COHEN
AND FIND OUT THAT THAT DOESN’T
WORK VERY WELL.
JON MEACHAM, LET’S SEE IN ALSO
ON A COUPLE OF ARGUMENTS THAT
THE REPUBLICANS MADE YESTERDAY
THAT ARE JUST PREPOSTEROUS.
THAT IS THE AID, THEY ENDED UP
GETTING THE AID ANYWAY SO THIS
EXTORTION DIDN’T WORK.
OF COURSE, WE CAN LOOK AT, YOU
KNOW, FBI OFTEN KICKS DOWN DOORS
AND ARRESTS CONSPIRATORS WHILE
THEY’RE MAKING THE BOMB OR
PLANNING THE BANK ROBBERY.
IT’S STILL A CRIME REASONED O
AND,
AND, AND, OF COURSE, WATERGATE NOT A
SUCCESSFUL BURGLARY.
SUCCESSFUL BURGLARY. A THIRD-RATE, BOTCHED BURGLARY
THAT BROUGHT DOWN AN ENTIRE
GOVERNMENT
GOVERNMENT GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. JUST BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP FAILED
AT EXTORTING THE UKRAINIANS,
DOESN’T MEAN IT’S NOT
IMPEACHABLE.
IMPEACHABLE. >> AND IN WATERGATE, IF THE
BURGLARY WAS THIRD RATE, THE
COVER-UP WAS FOURTH OR FIFTH
RATE BECAUSE IT DIDN’T WORK
BECAUSE HERE WE ARE TALKING
ABOUT IT.
ABOUT IT. AND PRESIDENT NIXON WENT BACK TO
SAN CLEMENTE.
SAN CLEMENTE. WHOOPS.
WHOOPS. BUT STILL IMPEACHABLE.
YOU HAD REPUBLICAN SUPPORT FOR
THE FIRST ARTICLE, WHICH WAS
ABOUT THE COVER-UP, THE
ATTEMPTED OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE
WHICH IS THE MORE SERIOUS TERM.
I DON’T THINK -- I WATCHED A
GREAT DEAL YESTERDAY AND I KEPT,
YOU KNOW, TRYING BECAUSE WE’RE
ORDERED BY THE ENLIGHTENMENT
EXAMPLE TO KEEP AN OPEN MIND, TO
WEIGH CONTRARY EVIDENCE.
BUT THERE JUST WASN’T ANY
CONTRARY EVIDENCE TO THE IDEA
THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS ABUSED
HIS POWER IN A REMARKABLE WAY.
I THOUGHT ONE OF THE GREAT
MOMENTS WHICH WAS -- AND I
LOVED, MIKA, WE HAVEN’T
MENTIONED THIS, THAT YOUR FATHER
WAS MENTIONED AS A PARAGON AS
WAS HENRY KISSINGER FOR GEORGE
KENT.
KENT. BUT LOOKING AT SECRETARY KENT OR
SECRETARY KENT AND AMBASSADOR
TAYLOR, YOU KNOW, YOU SORT OF
SAW THE GHOSTS OF DEAN ACHISON
AND ROBERT LOVETT UP AGAINST THE
GUYS ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE
THESE CONTESTANTS FROM THE
APPRENTICE.
APPRENTICE. >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> YOU GET THIS CULTURAL CLASH
BETWEEN THE WISEMEN OF THE OLD
ERA AND THESE EYES GUYS.
AND WISE GUYS.
I THINK THAT’S A REVEALING
CULTURAL POINT HERE.
THEY WERE PLAYING BY A CERTAIN
SET OF RULES.
AND IT WAS ABOUT MEMOS AND IT
WAS ABOUT LISTENING WHEN THEY
WERE IN THE ROOM WITH FOREIGN
LEADERS AND TRYING TO EXECUTE
AMERICAN POLICY OVER PARTIES --
PRESIDENTS OF DIFFERENT PARTIES.
WHOLLY A UNIVERSE THAT MANY OF
US WERE ACCUSTOMED TO, NOT
ALWAYS RIGHT, YOU KNOW, VIETNAM
NOT SO GREAT, YOU KNOW.
SO THE LONG HISTORY OF THIS IS
MIXED.
MIXED. BUT THAT’S WHAT HUMAN NATURE IS
LIKE.
LIKE. BUT YOU HAD THIS WORLD OF FACTS
AND POLICY AND THE KIND OF -- I
DON’T WANT TO OVERPLAY THE
DIGNITY PART, BUT A DIGNITY
ABOUT AND A SERIOUSNESS ABOUT
THE AMERICAN EXPERIMENT UP
AGAINST GUYS WHO WERE TALKING
ABOUT CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT I
FOUND MYSELF GOOGLING AND THEY
WENT PRETTY MUCH TO THE SAME
PLACES.
PLACES. SO MY OWN SENSE IS THE FACTS ARE
THE FACTS WHETHER -- WHETHER
CONGRESSMAN AND SENATORS ARE
GOING TO SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?
THIS IS WHAT IT IS, THAT’S WHERE
WE ARE.
WE ARE. >> YEAH, WELL --
>> THE DIVIDE ACTUALLY IT’S EVEN
SHARPER.
SHARPER. YOU COULD DO A DIVIDE BETWEEN
ILLITERATE -- LITTER RATE
TESTIMONY AND AN IMMATERIALLLITE
DEFENSE BY REPUBLICANS.
AND JUST TO BE FAIR TO THE
REPUBLICANS, THEY’VE PROMISED TO
BE ILLITERATE.
BE ILLITERATE. THEY PROMISE NOT TO READ
REPORTS.
REPORTS. THEY’VE PROMISED TO GO IN AND TO
BE STUPID WHEN THESE HEARINGS
START.
START. AND THEY -- THAT’S AT LEAST ONE
PROMISE THAT THEY -- THEY
FULFILLED.
FULFILLED. BUT WHILE YOU HAD WITNESSES
TESTIFYING ABOUT FACTS, AND
BEING AS STATE FORWARD AS
POSSIBLE IN TALKING ABOUT U.S.
FOREIGN POLICY, YOU HAD THE
REPUBLICAN SIDE DREDGING UP
FACEBOOK CONSPIRACY THEORIES
THAT REALLY IT WASN’T A FAIR
INTELLECTUAL FIGHT.
INTELLECTUAL FIGHT. AND THERE WAS A DIVIDE BETWEEN
THE LITERATE AND THE ILLITERATE.
THOSE WHO SPENT THEIR ENTIRE
LIFE TRYING TO BETTER
THEMSELVES, TO FORGE U.S.
FOREIGN POLICY, AND THOSE WHO
PROMISED AMERICANS THAT THEY
WERE NOT GOING TO READ OR BE
PREPARED FOR THESE HEARINGS.
AND, WELL, THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT
HAPPENED, MIKA.
HAPPENED, MIKA. >> IT WAS HARD TO WATCH SOME OF