THE DIRECT RESULT OF ANTI-LAW
ENFORCEMENT FAD THATS SWEPT
THROUGH THE POLITICAL LEFT LIKE
A WILDFIRE.
>> THE COUNTRYS RECENT RISE IN
VIOLENT HAS REPUBLICANS TRYING
TO BLAME THE DEFUND THE POLICE
MOVEMENT IN DEMOCRATS HOPE OF
POLICE REFORM.
VIOLENT CRIME IS ON THE RISE.
HOMICIDES INCREASED BY 36% IN
MAJOR CITIES INCLUDING LOS
ANGELES AND ATLANTA IN 2020
ACCORDING TO A REPORT.
THE CURRENT SPIKE IN VIOLENT
CRIME IS A FRACTION OF WHAT IT
WAS AT ITS PEAK IN THE 1980s.
WHEN IT COMES TO EXPLAINS WHATS
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE UP TICK,
WERE NOW SEEING THE ANSWER IS,
WELL, COMPLICATED.
JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS,
JEFFREY BUTTS FROM JOHN JAY
COLLEGE AND ROSA BROOKS, FORMER
PENTAGON OFFICIAL AND AUTHOR OF
"TANGLED UP IN BLUE."
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING
TO THE SUNDAY SHOW.
LET ME READ YOU SOMETHING FROM
THE WASHINGTON POST EDITORIAL
BOARD.
VIOLENT CRIME IS SPIKING.
WE MUST STILL REIMAGINE PUBLIC
SAFETY.
WE NOTE CHICAGO SAW ITS WORST
YEAR OF KILLINGS IN MORE THAN
TWO DECADES.
HOMICIDE IN D.C. HIT A 16-YEAR
HIGH IN 2020.
THE REASONS REMAIN UNCLEAR.
POSSIBLE FACTOR INCLUDE THE
ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL UPHEAVAL
UNLEASHED BY COVID-19 AND COVID
OUT BREAKS THAT FORCED POLICE TO
SCALE BACK POLICE DEPLOYMENTS.
LAST SUMMERS PROTEST FOLLOWING
THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD MAY
HAVE MADE CIVILIANS WEARIER OF
CALLING ON LAW ENFORCEMENT OR
INVOLVING THEMSELVES.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT AND
DOES THAT GOAT THE COMPLEXITY OF
WHY VIOLENT CRIME IS ON THE
RISE?
>> YES.
I THINK ANYBODY WHO TELLS YOU
THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT CAUSES
CRIME TO GO UP SOMETIMES AND
DOWN SOMETIMES IS EITHER LYING
OR THEY ARE A FOOL.
WE REALLY DONT KNOW.
ITS INCREDIBLY COMPLICATED.
ITS HARD TO TEASE OUT
CAUSATION.
HOMICIDES BEGAN FOR THE RACIAL
JUSTICE MOVEMENT BEFORE GEORGE
FLOYDS DEATH.
ITS HARD TO ARGUE THIS IS THE
PRIMARY CAUSE.
CONCEIVABLY ITS A CONTRIBUTING
CAUSE BUT ITS JUST AS LIKELY
THE CONTRIBUTING CAUSE IS LOWER
TRUST IN THE POLICE AS PEOPLE
WATCH VIDEOS OF POLICE DOING
HORRIFIC THINGS MAKES THEM LESS
LIKELY TO GO DO POLICE AND SAY
IM AWARE OF A POTENTIAL CRIME
OR HERE IS SOMEONE WHO DID THIS.
WHEN YOU DONT TRUST THE POLICE,
YOU KEEP THINGS TO YOURSELVES.
>> YOUR ASSESSMENT.
>> WELL, I AGREE WITH ROSA THAT
ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY EXACTLY
WHAT CAUSES IT.
RESEARCHERS CAN ELIMINATE
POSSIBLE EXPLANATIONS.
YOU COULD LOOK AT DATA AND TEST
HYPOTHESES
HYPOTHESES.
WHEN YOU KNOW THATS BEEN AROUND
IS ITS SOMEHOW RELATED TO
DEFUNDING THE POLICE.
THEY LOOKED AT CITIES CHANGE IN
VIOLENT CRIME, PARTICULARLY
SHOOTINGS.
THERES NO RELATIONSHIP THERE.
IT MAKES NO SENSE TO POINT TO
EITHER LEFT WING PROTESTS OR
POLICE BEHAVIOR AND TRY TO
ATTRIBUTE CAUSATION TO SUCH
VACILLATING CRIME TRENDS.
CRIME TRENDS GO UP.
THEY GO DOWN.
WE CAN LOOK BACK IN TIME AND STARTS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT CAUSES
STARTS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT CAUSES
THE MAJOR FLUCTUATIONS.
IN ITS MACE TAKE
>> ITS A MISTAKE TO LOOK AT
POLICE BUDGETS AND SAY IT CUT
ITS BUDGET AND THAT EXPLAINS WHY
CRIME HAS SPIKED, THAT DOESNT
MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL.
YOU CANT SEE THAT. KIND OF
IMPACT THAT QUICKLY.
>> THATS RIGHT.
I THINK ONE OF THE MYTHS ABOUT
DEFUNDING POLICE IS DEPARTMENT
VS BEEN DEPRIVES OF THEIR
RESOURCES FOR BETTER OR FOR
WORSE.
A LOT OF CITIES THAT MOVED
RAPIDLY TO DO DEFUNDING TOOK A
PRETTY MINIMAL AMOUNT OF MONEY
AWAY FROM POLICE BUDGETS.
TUCKED IT INTO OTHER AGENCIES
THAT WERE PERFORMING TO SAME
FUNCTIONS.
WE HAVENT REALLY SEEN THE KIND
OF DRAMATIC CUTS IN ANY CASE YOU
WOULD EXPECT TO HAVE A
SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE.
>> I WAS TALKING TO A SOURCE IN
PREPARATION FOR THIS AND THEY
MADE THE POINT IF A POLICE
DEPARTMENT CUTS ITS BUDGET,
WHERE WAS THE MONEY COMING FROM?
WAS THE MONEY COMING FROM TAKING
POLICE OFF THE STREETS OR WAS IT
POLICE CARS OR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT.
SHOULDNT WE BE MORE SEW
SOPHISTICATED IN THE WAY WE TALK
ABOUT AND LOOK AT NOT ONLY WHY
CRIME IS RISING BUT AT WHAT
POLICE BUDGETS ARE AND WHAT THE
MONEY IS SPENT ON.
>> YES.
WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT POLICE
ARE CENTRAL PARTNERS FOR
CREATING SAFETY BUT THERES A
LOT MORE TO PUBLIC SAFETY THAN
LAW ENFORCEMENT.
SAFE NEIGHBORS ARE NOT SAFE DUE
TO CONSTANT SURVEILLANCE AND
POLICE PATROL.
SAFETY COMES FROM PEOPLE LIVING
IN GOOD HOUSZING, GOOD SCHOOLS,
ADEQUATE SUPPLY.
OUR COUNTRY DOESNT CARE TO MAKE
THOSE THINGS AVAILABLE TO EVERY
ONE.
SEEING PUBLIC SAFETY AS ENTIRELY
ATTRIBUTABLE TO APOLICE LIKE
ASSUMING THE NATIONS HEALTH IS
ATTRIBUTABLE TO DOCTORS AND
HOSPITALS.
MEDICINE IS NOT THE SAME AS
HEALTH.
IT WOULD IGNORE DIET, EXERCISE,
DRUG ABUSE, STRESS LEVELS.
THERES A LOT GOING INTO PUBLIC
SAFETY OTHER THAN POLICING.
>> ROSA, ILL GIVE YOU THE LAST
QUESTION.
WE GOT A MINUTE LEFT.
AGAIN, LOOKING AT THIS, THE
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN POLICE AND
THE COMMUNITY, IF IT WERE
POSSIBLE, COULD WE SEE A
REDUCTION IN CRIME IF THERE WERE
BETTER RELATIONS BETWEEN POLICE
AND THE COMMUNITY, IF THERES A
CULTURE CHANGE AMONG POLICE AWAY
FROM THIS WARRIOR MENTALITY TO A
TRUE GUARDIAN MENTALITY IN.
>> I THINK SO.
I DONT THINK WE KNOW THAT MUCH
BUT THAT MAIKKES LOGICAL SENSE.
WHEN PEOPLE TRUST THE POLICE,
THEY ARE LIKELY TO GO TO THEM.
IT HELPS POLICE SOLVE CRIMES AND
PREVENT CRIMES.
WHEN POLICE ARE WORKING WITH
OTHER STRATEGIES, THEY BECOME
MORE EFFECTIVE.
IN MANY CITY VS SEEN A LOT OF
SUCCESS WITH NON-POLICING
EFFORTS TO DISRUPT PATTERNS OF
VIOLENT CRIME, SO CALLED
VIOLENCE INTERRUPTERS.
THATS BEEN A PROMISING
APPROACH.
ONE OF THE POSSIBLY REASONS WE HAVE SEEN HOMICIDES GO UP IS
HAVE SEEN HOMICIDES GO UP IS
BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC.
WHEN WE GET BACK TO NORMAL, AS I
HOPE WE WILL, I HOPE WE WILL SEE
SOME CHANGES IN HOW POLICE
DEPARTMENTS ACT AND WELL SEE AN
INCREASE ONCE AGAIN MANY THOSE