Rapsody and Angie, it is so amazing to be able to share space with you today.
I am excited, a big fan of both of y'all.
But before we get started, I'd love for you to introduce yourself to the viewers.
So Rapsody, why don't you kick us off?
Who are you and what do you do?
>> The R-A-P-S-O-D-Y, I'm an MC from North Carolina,
a creative, I like to create, a lover of sports,
a lover of hip hop culture, and all those good things.
It's so much more but you know, that's, I'll let them dig,
I can't give all the diamonds away just yet.
>> [LAUGH] I love it and Angie, who are you and what do you do?
>> I'm Angie Thomas.
I'm an author of The Hate U Give, On the Come Up, Concrete Rose.
I try to be a microphone for young people.
I'm a huge hip hop head.
I'm fangirling over Rapsody right now and trying to keep my cool [LAUGH].
But I'm a southern girl who is all about speaking up and speaking out.
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>> So I wanna talk a little bit about being a Black woman
in the entertainment industry and also in the literary space.
I myself am an author as well.
So I just know how, it's a lot, right?
Where we have to have these platforms,
hold space for other people, hold space for our readers and our listeners.
So I do wanna talk, Angie I want you to kick us off about being Black in
the literary space and what having that microphone means to you?
>> It's a lot of pressure at times.
Before I became published, I didn't think that a book like mine could
be published because specifically in kids lit where I operate,
you don't see a lot of books about Black girls.
And you definitely don't see a lot of books about Black girls dealing with
police brutality, and that's what I had.
And now we're starting to see more diversity in kids lit, but
publishing still has such a long way to go.
It's disheartening to know that when I walk into meetings,
at publishing houses, it will be very rare to see anyone who looks like me.
And right now we're having a huge push towards diversifying the tables.
Because if we want diverse books,
we got to have diversity as far as the people who are in those spaces.
So at times I feel like I not only have to be a creative, but
I have to be an advocate.
And I think it's a privilege if you don't have to do any kind of advocacy in
the space that you're in.
But as Black women, we often find ourselves having to be advocates in so
many different ways and that's what I have to do now, in the position that I'm in.
So I have hope that things will change, but I can't lie, it's exhausting.
It's exhausting sometimes being the only Black face or
being the only Black voice in the conversation.
>> And Rapsody, how about you especially in the entertainment industry as well?
What is that like for you being a Black woman in that space and
having this platform and this microphone?
No pun intended to be able to share your light and
your truth and your artistry with folks who listen to your music?
>> I think the hardest thing and challenge for me was to create balance again.
I grew up where hip hop in the 90s and late 80s, and we had so
many women and examples of what femininity looked like in hip hop and
they were so varied from Queen Latifah to Roxanne Shanté to Lil' Kim,
Foxy Brown and Lauryn Hill, Missy Elliott.
And then it came a space where we didn't have a lane or
voice on a mainstream level.
It kind of morphed into video vixens, and
then it was a time where you only had one or two voices.
But now the beautiful thing is the resurgence of women taking up space in hip
hop and using their voice and being different.
And that's just been a challenge to not be swayed by what's popular and
to remain true to you, you know what I'm saying?
So that's been a challenge but it's been a beautiful and good fight.
I don't think I would change anything at all because as hard as challenging as
it is, I think the beautiful thing is that in the same light as Angie,
it's hard for her, it's challenging for her.
But when it's all said and done, people are gonna look back and say thank you for
having to fight for us, look at the fruits of your labor.
And I feel the same way, if I could be a voice with somebody to say, yo,
you get to define how you wanna show up on the microphone and hip hop.
You get to say what you wanna talk about, how you wanna dress,
however that is, as long as you remain true to you.
So you know, that's been the biggest thing is, you know, creating that space,
maintaining that space, not tiring out and understanding that it's not for nothing.
>> I like that piece about "it's not for nothing," and being able to essentially
carry the torch and light the way for those coming ahead of us.
So I wanna ask, what is your greatest celebratory moment so far in your career?
Cuz I know we talk a lot about the struggle and
we talk a lot about challenges, right?
But what about that self celebration and
also the celebration of just being a woman and
a Black woman in this space and being able to take up that space, unapologetically.
What would you say to that Rapsody?
>> Man, I can't ever pick just one, right?
Because, I appreciate, there's so many.
I look at my career and they're all stepping stones for me.
I think one of the biggest ones would probably be winning
Lyricist of the Year at BET awards.
That's an award that I was the first woman to receive and
knowing that there have been so many ill lyricists before me,
to be the first, it's kind of bittersweet, right?
Why am I the first?
But at the same time, I'm the first, and I know I won't be the last, that was one.
Man, creating an album, like Eve, where I got to celebrate women and
expand my sisterhood and make women feel good.
And I'm glad that I could give them an album that spoke for
them and told all the spectrum of who we are.
I don't know, going to South Africa, that was one of my biggest ones, right?
I went to South Africa and I met this little girl.
And she basically was like, I wanna be like you.
And for me, to be a North Carolinan and have influence over someone 16
hours over the ocean and more land, in the Motherland, that meant a lot.
That said that I don't have to be famous.
That doesn't mean I don't have impact.
And that's the biggest thing you can realize.
You can be as famous and as rich as you want, but for me, if I don't inspire
anybody, I light a match in anybody that's the purpose in it, that makes you.
It put meat on the plate, meat and potatoes.
It's not an empty thing that you're doing.
So those are just some, I ain't go take up the time, I know Angie got a lot.
>> [LAUGH] >> Yes,
and I'm gonna pass it to Angie too.
And I think that's really interesting to hear you say that intentional impact,
that is what influence is.
It doesn't have anything to do with fame or notoriety,
that one heart that we touch.
So Angie, I wanna talk about some of your celebratory moments in your career and
what has been maybe one of the greatest milestones or stepping stones for you?
>> You know, I think it's funny you bring it up the impact because all of
mine have to do with that.
Any time I have Black girls who reach out to me and say, thank you for
this book because it's the first time I saw myself in a book,
that's the big accomplishment for me.
When I have Black boys reach out to me, and they're like,
I've read this in a day and I hate reading, that's it.
My biggest accomplishment so far to me is the fact that I've hopefully
shown children's literature publishing that Black kids do read.
And other people will read about Black kids because that was the assumption for
so long but more importantly Black kids will read.
And knowing that I have so many of them who look to me and they feel me and
they connect with me and they trust me, that's major to me.
The other week, Jill Biden said she just bought The Hate U Give and
she's about to read it.
And that's dope.
I will not take away from that.
But having this boy in Philly, come up to me like yo ma,
I read this in the day, this is dope, that's even better [LAUGH].
And going around the world and meeting kids from all walks of life,
and knowing that I wrote something for them too, that's it for me.
So I'm so appreciative of my readership and
the young people who trust me to tell their stories.
>> Back, words are important.
>> Yes.
>> Through and through.
Through and through.
So of course, I can't not talk about self care in this space,
in this conversation, especially as Black women,
especially as folks who are giving our art to the world, your art to the world.
So Rapsody, I'm gonna take it back to you, what is self care
teaching you about community care, and the importance of sisterhood?
Wow, I think the biggest thing I've learned about and
I've learned it within the last year and a half, right?
Being in this pandemic and having to really sit down and be still and
heal from some things and unlearn and relearn some things, is that, in order
sometimes to take care of the community, you got to start with self first.
You have to water yourself before you're able to
water somebody else cuz once you're drained out, you're not giving your
best to what it is that's important to you or touching to you.
For me, it's learning when to say no and when to say yes and being okay with that.
Taking time to feel things and not extinguish them all the time.
Sometimes you gotta sit in the fire.
And I've learned a lot about energy too,
looking at things from a 360 perspective and allowing people to
go through their process without having to take on that energy, right?
Cuz we all have a different process and timing of things.
So it's learning those things that have helped me mentally and
spiritually and energetically, to grow and
to be a better person and be a better artist, and to heal.
I suffer from anxiety, panic attacks, right?
And through this healing process, I haven't had one.
I used to have one once or twice a day.
I haven't had one in months, and I had to realize that it was stress.
A lot of stress I was holding in and putting too much on myself and
giving too much of myself and learning how to balance that.
So that's been the biggest lesson for me.
First take time to heal yourself.
>> I love that Angie, how about you?
What is self care teaching you about community care and
the importance of sisterhood and filling up your own cup?
>> Yeah, I'd have to piggyback off what Rapsody said, for me,
it was realizing that it's okay to say no.
For me, it was also getting in therapy and getting in therapy regularly.
In the Black community we don't talk about mental health nearly enough,
and I am a firm believer in therapy.
I have a Black woman therapist who I adore.
I'm so thankful for her and I'm on anxiety medication.
I'm so thankful for it.
I'm so thankful for the clarity of thought and mind that I have now and recognizing
that you can't take care of other people until you take care of yourself.
You can't take care of the community until you take care of yourself.
But also realizing too that so many of our communities are in need
of that same help that I'm now getting, mental health.
And speaking out about it and
taking away the stigma from it can help in so many ways.
So, yeah, I'm learning that, I'm learning who I am.
I'm learning to take care of me.
I'm learning to say no more.
And I'm learning that stress does not have to be normalized.
I think especially as Black women, society has at times made us feel like
we have to take on the world and we feel as if that's a normal thing.
And we carry all of these different burdens at once and
it doesn't have to be that way.
We don't have to live stress, we can find ways to let stress go.
And that's what I'm learning day by day.
So yeah, in a way I'm thankful for the pandemic for
making me sat down somewhere as the old folks say.
>> [LAUGH] >> And taking that time to breathe and
get to know me and relax and get my mental health right.
>> I love that.
>> So before we wrap up I definitely wanna touch on leading by example,
especially in the creative space.
What would you say about leading by example as an author, Angie?
Is there a responsibility do you feel on your shoulders to lead by example as
far as chasing your dream, sharing your stories, standing in your truth?
And if so, what is the importance behind being that example for
those who are watching you and reading you?
>> I think there is.
What I'm learning, especially these past few days, is that I can lead by example,
by practicing what I preach, by speaking up and speaking out.
Like right now in my hometown of Jackson, Mississippi, residents,
tens of thousands of residents,
Black residents, have not had running water for almost three weeks now.
And I've been very outspoken about that.
And I wanted to show young people who are watching me or anybody
who wants to be a writer that if you write about these things, be about those things.
That for me is what leading by example means.
It's not just writing about it, not just talking the talk but walking the walk.
Also, I also understand, though that I'm a role model, but
it's not my responsibility to raise people's kids [LAUGH].
But my responsibility to them if nothing else is to show what
authenticity looks like.
That's the one thing I owe young people, authenticity.
That's what they crave.
That's what they want from so many of us, and
they don't get it nearly as much as they should.
And if nothing else, that's how I'm going to lead by example,
by being authentic, being real, owning up to mistakes when I make them.
Admitting when I'm wrong because young people don't see that nearly enough either
and learning from my mistakes.
That's how I lead, that's how I lead.
>> Rapsody, how about you?
How are you leading by example?
>> Hey man, the writer said it the best, I mean.
>> [LAUGH] >> Right out of my mouth,
I don't even know.
>> [LAUGH] >> I mean just to add,
that's it, authenticity, showing up as yourself,
as imperfectly perfect as we are, and allowing people to see that.
And it's okay, I think, we sometimes, not we but we in general, we fall into
a situation especially with social media and everything coming at us so
fast where everybody is trying to be perfect or trying to be this.
And that's not reality.
So I feel like as long as I wake up every day and look myself in the mirror,
and I'm proud of who I am and what I do.
And I do things that are true to me, that's the best way that I
can lead by example, is making space for people just to be themselves.
And that's what I love about Angie, that's what I love about Cardi B,
that's what I love about, I can go on and on.
Kendrick, to whoever else [LAUGH] but just allowing people to feel space and
say whoever you are, there's space for you.
Your light is good enough, you don't have to dim your light for anybody else.
And you do that by not trying to follow a trend or trying to be popular.
Just be you, because at the end of the day, if you're anything else other than
who you are and your true self, you're gonna burn out.
It takes a lot of energy to be fake, and
that would be my advice.
We only got 15 minutes, for real?
>> [LAUGH] >> It's 6:27, I think our time is up.
>> [LAUGH] >> My goodness.
Well, this was so great.
Thank you for sharing space with me.
It's been an honor to get to talk with you both and get to learn more about you and
what you're passionate about and just keep being lights in this world.
This is just amazing.
So thank you so much, guys.
>> Thank you, but before we get off, because the queen is here,
I just got to say like you are important, I see you, I appreciate you.
I became an MC and I love words because of books, right?
Books was my first love whether it was the mouse took my cookie,
I don't remember the exact name of it.
Y'all know what I'm talking about.
Or Coldest Winter Ever, you know what saying?
That taught me how to use my imagination and use the power of words, and so
thank you for being an example for these kids because it all starts with language.
And I just had to give you your flowers.
That's what community and sisterhood is about.
So I just want to end on that note.
>> That's a beautiful way to end.
>> Wait, I got to give you yours cuz if it was not for
hip hop, I wouldn't be a writer.
I used to wanna be a rapper, but I couldn't do it well, so
I figured let me tell stories instead.
Because you all gave me permission to be authentic, to be honest,
to be real, to be raw, and to not hold back.
So from the bottom of my heart, thank you for that.
I would not be a writer if it were not for hip hop, and
I would not be a writer if it weren't for MCs like you, so thank you.
>> Thank you, sis.
So you're circular, we give and receive to each other and
that's what makes the community beautiful.
Thank you A-Money for holding it down.
>> [LAUGH] >> Always, it was bomb, this was great.
>> [LAUGH]
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