>>> WELCOME BACK.
THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION IS
EXPECTED TO BE HIT WITH CRIMINAL
CHARGES AS SOON AS THIS WEEK.
MULTIPLE PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH
THE MATTER TELL NBC NEWS,
TRUMPS ATTORNEY SAID COMPANY
LAWYERS MET WITH NEW YORK
DISTRICT ATTORNEY CY VANCE ON
THURSDAY TO TRY TO PERSUADE HIS
OFFICE AND THE STATE NOT TO GO
FORWARD.
HE TOLD NBC THAT FOR VANCE TO
CHARGE THE COMPANY IS, QUOTE,
COMPLETELY OUTRAGEOUS.
"THE WASHINGTON POST" REPORTS
VANCES OFFICE SET TODAY AS THE
DEADLINE FOR THE FORMER
PRESIDENTS ATTORNEYS TO MAKE
ANY FINAL ARGUMENTS AS TO WHY
THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION SHOULDNT
BE CHARGED FOR ATTEMPTS TO AVOID
PAYING STATE TAXES BY PAYING THE
ORGANIZATIONS EMPLOYEES WITH
GIFTS.
THE MOST PROMINENT GIFT
RECIPIENT IS ALLEGED TO BE THE
COMPANYS CHIEF FINANCIAL
OFFICER, ALLEN WIESELBERG WHO
PROSECUTORS WERE REPORTEDLY
HOPING WOULD COOPERATE WITH THE
INVESTIGATION AND IMPLICATE HIS
BOSS DIRECTLY.
THE EXPECTED CRIMINAL CHARGES
ARE NOT AGAINST TRUMP
PERSONALLY.
JOINING US NOW FORMER U.S.
ATTORNEY AND MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR,
BARBARA McQUAD.
WHAT CAN WE DEEM FROM THE
INFORMATION WE KNOW HERE?
>> WE HAVE A TRUMP ATTORNEY
MAKING PUBLIC STATEMENTS THAT
THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION MAY BE
CHARGED THIS WEEK.
I WOULD TAKE HIM AT HIS WORD.
I SAY LAWYERS SOMETIMES TRY TO
GET OUT IN FRONT OF THOSE
ALLEGATIONS SO THEY CAN USE IT
TO THEIR ADVANTAGE, TRYING TO
GENERATE SOME OUTRAGE IN
RESPONSE TO IT.
BUT I WOULD LOOK FOR CHARGES
AGAINST THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION.
I WOULD ALSO SUSPECT IF THOSE
CHARGES ARE FILED, THOSE WOULD
NOT BE THE ONLY CHARGES WELL
ULTIMATELY SEE.
SOMETIMES INITIALLY CHARGES ARE
FILED WITH THE INTENTION THAT
MORE CHARGES WOULD BE FILED
LATER BUT TO USE THIS MOMENT TO
MAKE A FINAL APPROACH TO PEOPLE
LIKE ALLEN WEISSELBERG AND
OTHERS LOWER IN THE ORGANIZATION
TO TRY TO USE IT AS AN
OPPORTUNITY TO SECURE THEIR
COOPERATION.
>> REPORTS FROM THE TRUMP SIDE
THAT VANCES OFFICE TOLD THEM
TODAY WAS THE DEADLINE TO
CONVINCE THEM NOT TO BRING
CHARGES, IS THAT UNUSUAL?
THE FINAL CHANCE?
>> IT IS UNUSUAL BUT NOT UNHEARD
OF.
SOMETIMES THERES AN EFFORT TO
WORK OUT A PLEA AGREEMENT OR
COOPERATION TO SAY YOU HAVE AN
OPPORTUNITY, WHETHER IT IS
SOMEONE LIKE ALLEN WEISSELBERG
OR SOMEONE ELSE, YOU HAVE AN
OPPORTUNITY TO BE A WITNESS
INSTEAD OF A DEFENDANT BUT WE
NEED TO GO FORWARD.
YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN US AN ANSWER
BUT WE NEED TO MAKE PROGRESS, SO
ON MONDAY WERE GOING TO FILE
CHARGES UNLESS YOU WANT TO TALK
ABOUT A PLEA DEAL, OTHERWISE THE
CHARGES WILL BE FILED.
IM SURE THEYRE BEING TRUTHFUL
ABOUT IT, IT IS NOT AN IDLE
THREAT, I SAW IT AS IMPORTANT TO
FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THAT THREAT
IF YOU DID NOT RECEIVE THE THING
THAT YOU WERE ASKING FOR.
>> SO BARBARA, WHAT ARE THE
CONSEQUENCES, THE POTENTIAL DOWN
SIDES FOR NOT JUST THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION BUT ANY
ORGANIZATION LIKE THIS THAT HAS
CHARGES BROUGHT AGAINST IT?
OBVIOUSLY NO PERSONAL CHARGES
BROUGHT AGAINST THE FORMER
PRESIDENT OR WEISSELBERG, BUT
WHAT, AS THE LAWYERS ARE SITTING
AROUND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT
THE IMPLICATIONS MIGHT BE FOR
THEIR ORGANIZATION, WHAT ARE
SOME OF THE BIGGEST CONCERNS THE
TRUMP ORGANIZATION MIGHT HAVE
RIGHT NOW?
>> WELL, NUMBER ONE, IF THEY ARE
CONVICTED OF THESE CHARGES, THEY
WOULD LIKELY BE VERY SUBSTANTIAL
FINES FOR THE ORGANIZATION.
OBVIOUSLY CORPORATE
ORGANIZATIONS
ORGANIZATIONS, SENTENTITIES CAN
TO PRISON BUT THEY CAN FACE
FINES.
IT CAN ALSO BE HARMFUL FOR A
BUSINESS ORGANIZATION EVEN TO BE
UNDER INDICTMENT, OFTENTIMES
PEOPLE DONT WANT TO ENTER INTO
CONTRACTS OR AFFILIATE WITH THEM
FOR PUBLICITY PURPOSES WHEN
THEYRE UNDER INDICTMENT.
SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF
PROBLEMS FOR CORPORATIONS UNDER
INDICTMENT BUT ALSO IT SIGNALS
THE POSSIBILITY THAT MORE
CHARGES ARE COMING FOR
INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE EXECUTIVES
AT THE ORGANIZATION.
>>> ANOTHER STORY WE WANT TO ASK
YOU ABOUT, IN AN EXCERPT FROM
THE ATLANTIC, JONATHAN KARLS
UPCOMING BOOK, BETRAYAL, FORMER
ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL BARR GIVES
AN INSIDE LOOK AT HIS BREAK WITH
PRESIDENT TRUMP OVER FALSE
CLAIMS OF ELECTION FRAUD.
KARL WRITES, BARR LOOKED INTO
ALLEGATIONS THAT VOTING MACHINES
ACROSS THE COUNTRY WERE RIGGED
TO SWITCH TRUMP VOTES TO BIDEN
VOTES.
WE REALIZED FROM THE BEGINNING
IT WAS JUST BS, BARR TOLD ME.
NOTING THAT EVEN IF THE MACHINES
SOMEHOW CHANGED THE COUNT, IT
WOULD SHOW UP WHEN THEY WERE
RECOUNTED BY HAND.
>> WE REALIZED FROM THE
BEGINNING IT WAS JUST BS.
>> FROM THE BEGINNING.
>> SAYS BARR.
ITS A COUNTING MACHINE.
AND THEY SAVE EVERYTHING THAT
WAS COUNTED.
SO YOU JUST RECONCILE THE TWO.
THERE HAD BEEN NO DISCREPANCY
REPORTED ANYWHERE.
AND IM STILL NOT AWARE OF ANY
DISCREPANCY.
BARR ALSO RECOUNTED TELLING AN
ASSOCIATED PRESS REPORTER THAT
THERE WAS NO ELECTION FRAUD AND
PROMPTLY BEING ASKED TO VERIFY
IT BY THEN PRESIDENT TRUMP,
WHICH HE DID.
THE FORMER PRESIDENT ASKED HOW
THE F COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME?
WHY DID YOU SAY IT?
BECAUSE ITS TRUE, BARR
ANSWERED.
THE PRESIDENT, LIVID, RESPONDED
BY REFERRING TO HIMSELF IN THE
THIRD PERSON.
YOU MUST HATE TRUMP.
MY GOD, I KNOW ITS HARD.
>> OH, NO.
NOT HARD FUNNY.
>> THE FORMER PRESIDENT CALLED
BAR A RHINO, WHO, QUOTE, REALLY
LET DOWN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
AND, QUOTE, WAS A DISAPPOINTMENT
IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD.
BARBARA McQUAD, YOUR THOUGHTS ON
THIS AND HOW POTENTIALLY ALL OF
THIS BUILD UP TO THE BIG LIE
COULD HAVE BEEN PUT TO BED A LOT
EARLIER.
>> THAT REPORT ALSO TALKS ABOUT
HOW MITCH McCONNELL WAS URGING
WILLIAM BARR TO COME OUT AND
MAKE PUBLIC STATEMENTS NOT TO
SAVE THE COUNTRY BUT TO SAVE THE
GOP.
REMEMBER, THIS WAS DURING THE
TIME WHEN THE GEORGIA SENATE
RACE WAS STILL UP IN THE AIR AND
MITCH McCONNELL WANTED DONALD
TRUMP DOWN THERE CAMPAIGNING FOR
THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES BUT HE
WAS BUSY FOCUSED ON TRYING TO
REVERSE HIS OWN ELECTION.
I THINK ITS GOOD THAT WILLIAM
BARR DID NOT FURTHER ABUSE THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO ADVANCE
DONALD TRUMPS POLITICAL AGENDA.
KEEP IN MIND ONE THING HE DID
DO, IN THE WEEK AFTER THE
ELECTION, HE REVERSED A JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT POLICY THAT SAID WE
ARE NOT TO INVESTIGATE ELECTION
FRAUD CLAIMS BEFORE VOTES ARE
CERTIFIED.
AND THE REASON IS, THAT IS NOT
THE JOB OF THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT.
WE HAVE SECRETARIES OF STATE
AROUND THE COUNTRY WHOSE JOB IS
TO DO WHAT YOU SAID, MIKA, TO DO
HAND COUNTS AND RECOUNTS AND
CERTIFY THE ELECTION RESULTS.
ITS THE JOB OF THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT TO INVESTIGATE
CRIMES, THOSE CAN BE DONE AFTER
THE FACTS.
SO CHANGING THE POLICY I THINK
WAS FURTHER ADVANCING DONALD
TRUMPS AGENDA IN THE EARLY DAYS
AFTER THE ELECTION.
>> AND JONATHAN LEMIRE, WE SEE
YET ANOTHER CABINET OFFICIAL, WE
SAW IT HAPPENING IN REAL TIME,
SOMEBODY WHO COMPROMISED THEIR
INTEGRITY, BENT OVER BACKWARDS
TO HELP DONALD TRUMP VIOLATED,
CERTAINLY IN MY VIEW AND THE
VIEW OF MANY OTHER CONSERVATIVE
LEGAL SCHOLARS, REALLY BREACH
CONSTITUTIONAL NORMS PUTTING
DONALD TRUMPS INTERESTS OVER
THE INTERESTS OF THIS COUNTRY,
OVER DEMOCRACY, BUT STILL, THAT
NOT BEING ENOUGH IN THE END WHEN
HE REFUSED TO HELP THE PRESIDENT
TRY TO OVERTURN A PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTION.
>> FIRST OF ALL, JOE, THIS STORY
USES A TERRIFIC MOMENT OF USING
THE THIRD PERSON, WHICH I THINK
IM GOING TO START DOING MORE
OF, YOU MUST HATE LEMIRE.
>> EXACTLY.
LEMIRE DOESNT LIKE WHAT THE
YANKEES ARE DOING.
>> YOU ARE RIGHT, JOE, I THINK
THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS AT
PLAY HERE, A LITTLE BIT OF
REPUTATION LAUNDERING BY THE
FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL PUTTING
THIS OUT IN THIS NEW BOOK COMING
OUT LATER THIS YEAR.
BUT I ALSO THINK IT GOES TO SHOW
THE SYSTEM HELD BUT JUST BARELY.
I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE
BIGGEST LESSONS COMING FROM WHAT
WE SAW IN THE 2020 ELECTION WITH
TRUMP WITH A FULL OUT ASSAULT ON
OUR DEMOCRATIC PROCESS, ON THE