>> We're speaking with Jason Stanley, the author of How fascism works and I want to turn to the
future. You're both the medium term future but I feel like we first have to address like the
next seven days or so. There are. FBI reports about the possibility of mass attacks in DC.
At state houses state courthouses, local courthouses, they don't know exactly where
this might be, but they're talking about protect Potentially 10s of 1000s of armed
individuals heading to to the Capitol to try to stop democrats from making it into government
buildings, killing them if necessary, killing Republicans who won't support Donald Trump.
And we saw just a week ago, the Capitol Police was woefully unprepared. For the most telegraphed
events in recent American history, do you expect that these protests will materialize?
Do you think that the Capitol Police and the National Guard will be more prepared if they do
based on what Trump is saying and what you're seeing?
Where do you see this going in the near future? >> Okay, so no one can it's while no one can pick
it is he actually it's quite easy to predict that there was going to be some kind of mass,
right wing political violence. But here's the situation that we find ourselves in Trump.
Who I, I don't underestimate Trump. I have a much higher opinion of him
of his tactical and strategic abilities and other people, which has guided me
throughout this era. He there's been no systematic. attempt to study to to monitor
the explosion in among the far right in this country and that I think has been deliberate.
So Alex Vitale, the police Leasing specialists talked about how it's typical given the
sort of given that we live in essentially a racist country for
police to under overestimate the dangers in black protests. Task or leftist protest,
as those of us who participated in occupy remember they're not friendly police they're
and, and and underestimate the dangers in these kinds of protests.
We've had years of not paying attention to the domestic threat from from white terrorism and far
right terrorism. Of course not all of these people are white, there are plenty of black proud boys.
But this kind of domestic far right terrorism. Now what we've got is we've got an enormous movement.
We have an enormous movement. It's the people that attack the capital we're not just People living
in the woods, doing survivalist games and with their can cat openers, they came from all classes,
all professions. They were doctors, lawyers, everything. This is a mass right-wing
movement. And that's what happens when you have a political leader who foments conspiracy theories.
Says that liberals are out to bring world communism to your country. And all the other,
and QAnon, and these kinds of extreme conspiracy theories. So what we have is a mass right wing,
armed right wing movement. Have all classes. It's not just survivalists. It's not just people, not
just your we've seen this all over the world when far right militarized movements become mainstream.
So that's what we face. So the question is so you know these are
these are also people who are members of every branch of law enforcement So, the question is,
so that's a long term problem, how it shakes out in the next week. You know, is anybody's guess.
We say January 6 was hopefully something. I mean, I think there's a lot of sympathetic
Trump's supporters and every branch of law enforcement And so, but the
signal has to be sent to them that democracy is more important than any one's allegiance.
And, and they're not going to get away with this Trump's not gonna win.
So if Trump's not gonna win, now's not the time to do your revolution. I have no doubt that no matter
what happens January 6 will be a rallying cry for the fall for this movement to go into the future
and, and maybe decades into the future. What will happen in the next seven days?
Why I hope you know enough people are saying there's going to be accountability
especially People are sympathetic
if you're not doing your jobs. >> Yeah, I hope so. I hope so in
seeing in just a few years, let's go from Charlottesville to January 6, we got only
like you project that forward and you don't necessarily like the path that it's taking.
But finally. You've mentioned a number of different historic examples,
generally that have gone very poorly for the non fascists. Based on your research, do you have any
advice hypothetically, for the Biden administration or for Congress going forward,
anything that we can learn from the history of dealing with these movements
to try to get us back to a place that's less.
Fundamentally insane in so many different ways. >> Yeah. Well, I think that, as usual, you know,
you I'll join the chorus of praising Stacey Abrams. I mean, if you look at what Stacey
Abrams has done, what you've done is look at what black political organizers have done,
and the plan young people who've registered voters I think
there's going to be a social and political movement arising.
A far right social political movement moving to the mainstream, that's going to use the myth of
a fraudulent election as a revenge narrative. We need anyone, we have many q anon supporters in
Congress. So, we need to be explicit about that. So, I think the more explicit and the more we
face things and don't deny reality, the better we'll be able to deal with the reality we have.
I think what we've seen is far too much minimization,
both about how bad the already accent background situation was.
I mean, black Americans have been telling us for general since the 60s, at least. That the law
enforcement is shot through with far right white supremacist. So maybe we can take that seriously.
And maybe we can have less minimization of the it can happen here and these guys are clowns
variety. Yeah, that's all great advice going forward. And as you know,
some of the Capitol Police are under investigation for their actions last
week and the Secret Service has been combed through for people sympathetic to this ideology.
Yeah. I think that There might have been something to that infiltration argument all along.
>> Yeah >> Anyone watching this,
the book is how fascism works the politics of of us and then, as always, Jason, we appreciate you
joining us and lending your expertise to the show. >> Thank you so much.