WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY!
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WELCOME BACK TO "THE LATE SHOW."
FOLKS, MY GUEST TONIGHT IS THE FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO
UKRAINE WHOSE NEW BOOK IS CALLED "LESSONS FROM THE EDGE."
PLEASE WELCOME AMBASSADOR MARIE YOVANOVITCH.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ( BAND PLAYING )
>> Stephen: NOW, FOR THE FOLKS WHO DID NOT HEAR ME TALKING
ABOUT YOU AT THE TOP OF THE LAST ACT, THEY MIGHT REMEMBER YOU AS
SOMEONE FROM THE FIRST IMPEACHMENT OF THE FORMER
PRESIDENT, IMPEACHMENT CLASSIC, WE CALL IT.
THERE YOU ARE GIVING TESTIMONY AT THE IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS.
( APPLAUSE ) AND YOU SERVED AS AMBASSADOR TO
UKRAINE FROM 2016 TO 2019.
KYIV WAS YOUR HOME.
YOU WORKED ALONGSIDE THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.
AS YOU'VE LOOKED AT THE LAST TWO WEEKS, THIS MONSTROUS WAR THAT'S
BEEN LAUNCHED, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS NOT ONLY ON WHAT'S
HAPPENING BUT OF THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.
>> WELL, IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE IT'S ONLY BEEN TWO WEEKS.
THERE'S THE BEFORE TWO WEEKS AGO AND THEN THE AFTER-PERIOD.
I'VE JUST BEEN DEVASTATED.
THAT'S A WORD THAT'S BEEN OVERUSED IN THE LAST COUPLE OF
WEEKS BUT IT'S THE ACCURATE ONE TO DESCRIBE MY FEELINGS.
I FEEL EVERYONE YOU KNOW IN UKRAINE HAS A TARGET ON THEIR
BACK, PRESIDENT PUTIN IS GOING IN AND INDISCRIMINATELY KILLING
WOMEN, CHILDREN.
WE SAW PREGNANT WOMEN WHEN THERE WAS A BOMBING IN MARIUPOL OF THE
MATERNITY HOSPITAL.
SO IT'S BEEN PRETTY TOUGH TO WATCH AND SUPPORT AND BE IN
TOUCH WITH PEOPLE IN UKRAINE.
BUT THIS IS REALLY ABOUT THEM, AND THE COURAGE THAT THEY ARE
SHOWING, THAT THEY WILL NOT ALLOW AN AUTOCRAT TO COME INTO
THEIR COUNTRY AND DICTATE HOW THEY'RE GOING TO LIVE, NO MATTER
WHAT THE COST.
( APPLAUSE ) >> Stephen: YOU STILL HAVE
CONTACTS IN UKRAINE.
WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM THEM?
WHAT DO THEY WANT US TO KNOW?
>> WELL -- I BROUGHT MY PHONE, AND LET ME JUST READ A TEXT THAT
I GOT TODAY FROM A FRIEND WHO SH IN THE PARLIAMENT, AND IT'S A
LITTLE LONG.
I HOPE YOU WILL BEAR WITH ME BUT THIS IS DIRECT FROM THE
UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.
WE ARE OUTNUMBERED AND OUTGUNNED IN FRONT OF THE AGGRESS ER.
WE LACK AIR DEFENSE, ANTI-ROCKET, ANTI-TANK SYSTEMS
AND BASIC PROTECTION GEAR FOR OUR MILITARY.
WE ARE INCREASINGLY THREATENED WITH CHEMICAL AND TACTICAL
NUCLEAR ATTACKS.
BUT WITH RESOLVE, COURAGE AND DEDICATION TO PROTECT OUR
MOTHERLAND, OUR FREEDOMS AND THE THE RIGHTS WE BELIEVE IN,
UKRAINIAN SOCIETY IS STANDING UP TO THIS BARBARIC TERRORIST WAR.
WE WILL FIGHT TILL THE LAST BULLET AND THE LAST PERSON BUT
WE ARE PLEADING TO THE FREE WORLD -- THAT'S ALL OF US -- TO
HELP US DEFEND THE VALUES THAT THE FREE WORLD SHARES TO STOP
THIS APOCALYPSE.
GOD HELP US AND GOD BLESS AMERICA.
STRAIGHT FROM UKRAINE.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) >> Stephen: AND I AM FROM THE
GENERATION LIKE YOU ARE WHERE THE IDEA OF THERE BEING A FREE
WORLD IN OPPOSITION TO AN AUTOCRATIC WORLD WAS AN EVERY
DAY PART OF THE CONVERSATION.
CERTAINLY IN POLITICAL OR FOREIGN POLICY CONVERSATIONS.
ARE YOU SURPRISED WE'RE BACKE WE ARE RIGHT NOW?
>> IN SOME WAYS I AM, BUT IN OTHER WAYS, HAVING WATCHED PUTIN
OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS OR SO, NOT SO SURPRISED.
HE'S HAD AN OBSESSION WITH UKRAINE.
HE'S -- OVER THE YEARS.
HE HAS MADE CLEAR THAT HE, AS YOU NOTED, DOESN'T BELIEVE THERE
IS A DISTINCT UKRAINIAN PEOPLE OR THAT THERE IS A NATION THAT
DESERVES TO HAVE A STATE, AND RECENTLY HE'S ALSO NOTED THAT HE
THINKS THAT THE SO I'VE UNION OR THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE SHOULD BE
RECONSTITUTED.
SO IF PUTIN ISN'T STOPPED NOW, I THINK HE WILL CONTINUE TO GO ON
BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE HISTORY HAS SHOWN US.
GEORGIA IN 2008, UKRAINE IN 2014 AND UKRAINE AGAIN IN 2022.
IF HE'S NOT STOPPED, HE'LL KEEP ON GOING.
BUT THE OTHER THING IS THAT HE HAS MADE CLEAR THAT THE
INTERNATIONAL RULES-BASED ORDER WHICH IS ALSO SOMETHING FAMILIAR
TO OUR GENERATION, KIND OF OF A SYSTEM THAT WAS SET UP AFTER
WORLD WAR II FOR THE RULES OF THE ROAD FOR HOW COUNTRIES DEAL
WITH EACH OTHER, THAT THAT DOESN'T REALLY WORK FOR HIM.
HE WANTS TO BE IN A MIGHT MAKES RIGHT SITUATION, GET WHATEVER HE
WANTS, AND THAT IS A REAL THREAT, I THINK, TO THE FREE
WORLD BECAUSE THE RULES-BASED INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM HAS KEPT US
FREER, MORE PROSPEROUS AND MORE SECURE SINCE WORLD WAR II.
AND IF PUTIN PREVAILS, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE A SYSTEM THAT
COULD VERY WELL HAVE AUTOCRATS DECIDING WHAT KIND OF RULES WE
LIVE BY, AND THAT WOULD NOT BE GOOD FOR THE UNITED STATES.
>> Stephen: YOUR NEW BOOK IS CALLED "LESSONS FROM THE EDGE."
IN 2019, YOU YOURSELF WERE THE VICTIM OF A SMEAR CAMPAIGN.
RUDOPH JEW GIULIANI TOLD THE FORMER PRESIDENT THAT YOU
BLOCKED EFFORTS TO GET UKRAINE TO INVESTIGATE JOE BIDEN, AND
YOU WERE THEN FIRED.
LATER, THE JULY 25th CALL REVEALED THAT THE PRESIDENT
PRESSURED UKRAINE FOR THOSE INVESTIGATIONS BY WITHHOLDING
MILITARY AID.
HOW IS ALL OF THAT RELATED TO THIS WAR?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT WHAT EVERYBODY SAW WITH THE RELEASE
OF THE TRANSCRIPT OF WHAT WE NOW KNOW AS THE "PERFECT CALL," I
THINK THAT WHAT WE SEE IS THAT PUTIN, LIKE OTHER AUTOCRATS
AROUND THE WORLD AND, FRANKLY, OTHER BAD ACTORS AROUND THE
WORLD AND IN THE UNITED STATES, THEY REALIZE THAT THE FORMER
PRESIDENT WAS READY TO USE OUR NATIONAL SECURITY FOR HIS OWN
PERSONAL AND POLITICAL GAIN.
YOU WILL RECALL THE PHRASE, YOU KNOW, "CAN YOU DO ME A FAVOR,
THOUGH."
>> Stephen: YES.
O, CLEARLY, THE QUID PRO QUO IS THERE.
AND I THINK THAT REALLY UNDERMINED OUR NATIONAL SECURITY
AND OUR ABILITIES TO MOVE FORWARD, WHEN PEOPLE COULD SEE
THAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WAS READY TO, YOU KNOW,
NOT BE ACTING IN THE INTERESTS OF THE NATION BUT IN HIS OWN
PERSONAL BEST INTERESTS.
>> Stephen: ONE OF THE THINGS JOE BIDEN HAS TO DO IN THE FIRST
YEAR IS TO PATCH OUR N.A.T.O.
ALLIANCE AND MAKE SURE WE'RE COMMITTED AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS
COMMITTED.
PUTIN WANTED TO UNDERMINE THAT.
N.A.T.O. HAS BROUGHT WORLD TOGETHER IN A WAY THEY HAVEN'T
PROBABLY SINCE THE BOSNIAN PUBLIC.
MANY POLITICIANS IN THE UNITED STATES ON THE RIGHT CONTINUE TO
SUPPORT THE PREVIOUS PRESIDENT AND, STRANGELY, AT TIMES,
VLADIMIR PUTIN HIMSELF.
HOW DOES THAT TRAINING FEEL UNDERMINE OUR POSITIONS WITH OUR
ALLIES AND OUR STANDING IN THE WORLD?
>> WELL, I THINK PEOPLE REALLY WONDER WHAT IS GOING ON HERE IN
THE UNITED STATES.
>> Stephen: WHAT IS GOING ON HERE IN THE UNITED STATES?
>> I WISH I KNEW AND COULD TELL YOU.
THAT IS NOT ONE TO HAVE THE LESSONS.
( LAUGHTER ) BUT IT'S WORRISOME THAT PEOPLE
WOULD HOLD UP PUTIN AS A STRONG MAN AND AS SOMEBODY TO BE
ADMIRED AND EMULATED, PEOPLE SHOSHED KNOW BETTER.
>> Stephen: HOPEFULLY THIS WILL STRIP THE MASK OFF HIM AND
PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO FACE THE HAIR ROAR THAT AUTOCRATIC
REGIMES ARE.
>> THAT'S WHAT I HOPE, ALTHOUGH AT A VERY HIGH COST TO UKRAINE.
>> Stephen: WHEN WE COME BACK, I'LL HAVE THE AMBASSADOR ABOUT
THE FIRST TIME SHE MET PRESIDENT ZELENSKY.
STICK AROUND.