munitions hitting a civilian
area and Ukraine's second
largest city of kharkiv.
These are weapons that Ukraine
says it they get to change the
force of the world.
We spoke to Dan rice, special
adviser to the commander in
chief of Ukraine's armed forces,
and he told out front that
these type of weapons are 5 to
10 times more lethal than
Ukraine's current weapons, and
they are more effective against
Russian personnel and armor.
Here is why.
We'll show you a graphic here.
The first one shows the blast
area from one normal high
explosive round.
The damage that bomb Lance,
about 160 feet.
Let me show you a cluster bomb
the, one Ukraine now ask for.
80 little Bob let's go out,
they scatter over an air of 220
feet, that is why Ukraine wants
them.
They will aim at a group of
Russian soldiers, they don't
just have one hit and it
spreads out, they can kill a
lot more of them.
Will Ripley is out front live
in Kyiv tonight to begin our
coverage and, will, what is the
latest are tonight?
>> You know, I've seen the
impact of the cluster bombs
firsthand.
We met a woman who had one of
those go through the wall of
her children's bedroom.
These are very since the --
Ukraine's are also developing
drones, flying deep into
Russian territory, drones that
have hit strategic air bases
this coast as 500 miles from
the Russian capital of Moscow.
You have president Putin there
anything nuclear weapons and
already using 19 80s soviet era
nuclear weapons on Ukraine.
He's just launching them
estimates now without warheads,
but they are landing.
They are lobbying themselves
into buildings, and the
Ukrainians know that these
missiles were built in the 19
80s to carry nuclear warheads,
of which Putin has plenty, is
that a sign or signal for the
people of Ukraine?
Is it an attempt to try to
exhaust there at the fences?
Either way, the Ukrainian
certainly know what is at stake
here.
That is why they are launching
more counter offensives.
They're defending bakhmut,
which Russia is trying
desperately to take to
demonstrate some level of
success on the battlefield
because they have had a string
of humiliating failures.
There's also were tonight, Erin,
that there is another potential
front in this war, so we talked
about the donetsk region to the
east.
We talked about kherson to the
south, but now up by the
Belarusian border there are
troops on the Belarusian side
mobilizing.
They're calling them military
exercises, but hundreds and
thousands of troops are
expected to be gathering there
in the coming days.
Ukrainians are also they're
starting to dig trenches,
starting to build
reinforcements.
This is why they are asking for
these cluster bombs and any
other weapons possible to
prevent yet another potential
ground invasion.
Could it have been in the
coming weeks?
Could happen in the spring when
things warm up because
temperatures are plunging here?
The Fischel start of winter is
later this month.
They don't know all the answers
but what they do know is that
Putin will likely to everything
he hasn't to the war and they
will try to do everything they
can to stop him.
>> All right, thank you very
much well Ripley.
Obviously ominous considering
that Belarusian border is where
the troops have all poured into
the original offensive and
attack on Kyiv itself.
As I mentioned, the exclusive
reporting tonight Ukrainian
officials pushing the Biden
administration and members of
congress to provide the
Ukrainian military with cluster
ammunition or heads.
These are the weapons I
mentioned.
Russia has been using to
devastating effect.
They are also weapons that are
bent by more than 100 countries,
so let's go to Natasha Bertrand
in Washington who broke the
story.
Natasha, what more are you
learning tonight?
>> Aaron, the Biden
administration not officially
responded to our reporting here,
not providing official comment,
but what we have learned is
that senior Biden officials
have been wearing these
requests by the Ukrainians for
these cluster munitions that
have not rejected does requests
outright.
So what we also learned is that
Ukrainians have been asking for
these munitions for months.
Obviously, it's a controversial
request because as he laid out,
these are bombs that exploded
and launch dozens and dozens of
tiny sub munitions that then
explore themselves.
Part of the risk, just apart
from the fact affect such a
large group of people, such a
large area of land, is also the
fact that many of these
submissions, when they explode
on the ground don't actually
explode.
So like land mines, they lay
around until people and
potentially civilians
encountered them.
This is very controversial.
The Biden administration is
weighing it, but they say that
they are not necessarily
considering it seriously at
this point, primarily because
congress is actually imposed
restrictions on the U.S.
Ability to send these cluster
munitions overseas.
President Biden can overrule
that but that would require a
kind of extraordinary
determination that the
administration does not seem
prepared to make at this point.
However, the Ukrainians have
been saying that this could
really be a game-changer for
them on the battlefield, and
the administration wearing it
as I do with all the other
Ukrainian requests for weaponry,
Aaron?
>> All right, Natasha, thank
you very much.
Obviously, a significant step
there.
Let's go now to the former
defense secretary and former
CIA director under president
Obama, Leon Panetta.
Director and secretary, of
course, Ukrainians are saying
that this would be a
game-changer.
Do you believe that the U.S.
Should provide Ukraine with
these cluster munitions, even
though they are banned because
of what Natasha set.
Some of the damage that they
can cause down the line to
civilians in more than 100
countries.
Should the U.S. Provide them
now?
>> I think it's well that the
administration consider this
request very seriously.
Look, the Russians are not
playing by the rules.
They've used cluster bombs,
they are sending missiles into
schools and into hospitals.
They have no regard for human
life.
The cluster bomb is designed to
go after a military operation,
where you've got military units
are gathered on the
battlefield.
I think that if there are some
conditions with regards to the
use of those kinds of weapons,
I think it is possible that
they could have that kind of
weapon.
They got to be able to defend
themselves against what the
Russians are doing.
That's absolutely essential if
they are going to succeed.
.
>> Let me ask you about what
the Russians are doing.
Putin, of course, now has
personally making a nuclear
threat and referring directly
to icbms, which would be
talking about the U.S. And
Russia.
He's making that very clear.
You know him, you met him when
he worked in the clinician,
when he worked in the bomb
ministration.
He is now saying, not just this
threat but the threat of
nuclear war overall is
increasing.
Those are his words.
If he were to use nuclear
weapons in any way in Ukraine,
and he is also making it clear
that he do a first Rick, how
would you want the U.S. To
respond?
>> I think the president has
done this and made very clear
that if the Russians use
nuclear weapons, there would be
catastrophic consequences to
the use of that kind of weapon,
and I think that's exactly what
should happen.
If Putin crosses that line and
makes use of a nuclear weapon
with regards and all of the
ramifications of what a nuclear
weapon can do, I think the
United States and our allies
have to be willing to respond
with force, if necessary, in
order to make clear that that
would force the United States,
Ukraine and our allies to
confront Putin and the Russian
invasion directly.
>> Russia has now blamed
Ukraine for several attacks
within Russian borders.
The white house said today that
the U.S. Respects Ukraine's
military decisions, but the
U.S. Is not encourage or unable
to strikes on Russia.
Obviously, there is speculation
that Ukraine now has its own
internally topped drones and
enabled them to do this.
That is the speculation.
What do you think happened?
>> I think the Ukrainians are
defending themselves, that's
what I think is happened here.
These are basis where Russian
planes are taking off to deploy
this barrage of missiles that
are going into Ukraine and
doing tremendous damage to
human life, to their
infrastructure and to their
entire country.
So, I think the Ukrainians have
every right to defend
themselves in this situation.
It's up to them.
But if I were in a situation
where they are taking direct
hits from the Russians every
day, I think the Ukrainians
have a responsibility to
respond, so I understand there
need to be able to defend
themselves.
>> I would think it's
significant, right you're not
just saying the right to