>>> MIKE FLYNN WAS FORCED OUT AS PRESIDENT TRUMP’S FIRST NATIONAL
SECURITY ADVISER THREE AND A
HALF WEEKS INTO THE START OF THE
NEW ADMINISTRATION.
NEW ADMINISTRATION. HE DIDN’T EVEN MAKE IT A MONTH.
AFTER HE GOT FORCED OUT IN
SCANDAL, YOU MIGHT REMEMBER THAT
MIKE FLYNN RETROACTIVELY
REGISTERED WITH THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT FOR HAVING BEEN A
FOREIGN AGENT.
FOREIGN AGENT. HE HAD BEEN PAID, IT TURNS OUT,
ABOUT A HALF MILLION BY A
FOREIGN GOVERNMENT, BY THE
GOVERNMENT OF TURKEY WHILE HE
WAS PART OF THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN.
WHEN HE FINALLY MONTHS LATER
RETROACTIVELY REGISTERED AS
HAVING BEEN A FOREIGN AGENT
DURING THE CAMPAIGN, THAT MADE
SOME OTHER THINGS MAKE SENSE.
WE HAD KNOWN FOR EXAMPLE THAT ON
ELECTION DAY, MIKE FLYNN HAD
PUBLISHED A VERY STRANGE OVER
THE TOP OP-ED IN "THE HILL"
NEWSPAPER.
NEWSPAPER. IT ARGUED AGAINST A TURKISH
CLERIC WHO LIVES IN THE UNITED
STATES.
STATES. HE LIVES IN THE U.S.
HE IS A U.S. RESIDENT AND HAS A
GREENCARD.
GREENCARD. FLYNN’S OP-ED COMPARED THIS
TURKISH BY TO OSAMA BIN LADEN
AND SAID THAT THE UNITED STATES
SHOULD DEFINITELY HAND HIM OVER
TO TURKEY.
TO TURKEY. NOW THE AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT
IN TURKEY BLAMES THIS GUY IN THE
U.S. FOR PRETTY MUCH ALL OF
THEIR PROBLEMS.
THEIR PROBLEMS. HE IS THEIR UNIVERSAL BOOGIEMAN.
THEY BLAME HIM FOR AN ATTEMPTED
COUP BACK IN 2016.
THEY BLAME HIM FOR EVERYTHING.
SO IT’S A LITTLE WEIRD THAT
SOMEBODY FROM THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN
WAS ARGUING YEAH, HAND HIM OVER.
GIVE HIM TO THE TURKS, RIGHT?
BUT THAT WAS MIKE FLYNN.
IT WAS A LITTLE WEIRD.
THEN IT GOT WEIRDER.
THERE ARE REPORTS IN "THE WALL
STREET JOURNAL" THAT MIKE FLYNN
HAD HAD MEETINGS WITH OFFICIALS
FROM THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT IN
LATE 2016 AT WHICH THEY
DISCUSSED BASICALLY KIDNAPPING
THAT TURKISH GUY, KIDNAPPING HIM
AND FLYING HIM ON A PRIVATE JET
TO A TURKISH PRISON ISLAND.
FOR THIS SCHEME MIKE FLYNN AND
HIS SON WOULD PURPORTEDLY BE
PAID AS MUCH AS $15 MILLION.
THAT WAS A LITTLE SIDE PROJECT
HE WAS WORKING ON WHILE HE WAS
WORKING ON THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN
BEFORE HE GAME NATIONAL SECURITY
ADVISER.
ADVISER. FLYNN’S LAWYER SAID THOSE
ALLEGATIONS ARE FALSE.
THEN NBC NEWS FURTHER REPORTED
THAT IN THE WEEKS FOLLOWING
TRUMP’S INAUGURATION, AFTER
FLYNN TOOK OFFICE AS NATIONAL
SECURITY ADVISER, A REQUEST WAS
MADE TO THE FBI TO, HEY, LET’S
LOOK INTO SENDING THAT CLERIC
BACK TO TURKEY, THAT EXILED
CLERIC.
CLERIC. HE’S GOT A GREENCARD.
SEA LEGAL PERMANENT RESIDENT.
HE HAS BEEN A RESIDENT FOR 20
YEARS.
YEARS. HE LIVES IN THE POCONOS.
THE U.S. DOESN’T GENERALLY HAND
OVER POLITICAL EXILES WHO ARE
LEGAL RESIDENTS OF THIS COUNTRY
WHO ARE NOT KNOWN TO HAVE
COMMITTED ANY CRIMES IN THIS
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. WE DON’T USUALLY HAND OVER
ENDANGERED EXILES TO
AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES WHO ARE
DEMANDING THEIR RETURN BECAUSE
THEY BLAME THEM FOR THE SUN
RISING.
RISING. BUT THIS WEEK NBC NEWS REPORTS
THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION
ONCE AGAIN IS GOING AFTER THIS
GUY, TRYING TO SEND THIS GUY
OVER TO TURKEY.
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS
LAST MONTH ASKED FEDERAL LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES TO EXAMINE
LEGAL WAYS OF REMOVING EXILED
TURKISH CLERIC FETHULLAH GULEN
IN AN ATTEMPT TO PERSUADE
TURKEY’S GOVERNMENT TO EASE
PRESSURE ON THE SAUDI
GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. THE WHITE HOUSE IS LOOKING FOR
WAYS TO PLAY INDICATE TURKEY
OVER THE MURDER OF U.S.
JOURNALIST JAMAL KHASHOGGI,
ACCORDING TO TWO SENIOR U.S.
OFFICIALS AND TWO OTHER PEOPLE
BRIEFED ON THE REQUESTS.
NBC CONTINUES, QUOTE, CAREER
OFFICIALS AT THE AGENCIES PUSHED
BACK ON THE WHITE HOUSE
REQUESTS.
REQUESTS. AS ONE SENIOR U.S. OFFICIAL
DESCRIBED IT, QUOTE, AT FIRST
THERE WERE EYE ROLLS.
BUT ONCE THEY REALIZED IT WAS A
SERIOUS REQUEST, THE CAREER GUYS
WERE FURIOUS.
WERE FURIOUS. JOINING US NOW IS SOMEBODY WHO
KNOWS HOW THINGS ARE SUPPOSED TO
WORK INSIDE THE ADMINISTRATION,
OR INSIDE ANY ADMINISTRATION ON
AN ISSUE LIKE THIS.
HE KNOWS WHAT NORMAL LOOKS LIKE
IN A CIRCUMSTANCE LIKE THIS.
DAVID LOCKMAN WAS A LONG-TIME
CIVIL SERVANT AND PROSECUTOR AT
THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.
IN FEBRUARY HE RESIGNED AS THE
HEAD OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT’S
COUNTERLEDGES,
COUNTERLEDGES, COUNTERINTELLIGENCE AND CONTROL
SECTION.
SECTION. THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
IT’S ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE YOU
HERE.
HERE. >> THANKS, RACHEL.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS IS MIKE
FLYNN REGISTERING AS A FOREIGN
AGENT AFTER THE TIME HE LEFT THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. BUT THE OTHER ISSUE HERE IS THE
QUESTION OF THIS U.S. GREENCARD
HOLDER, THIS MAN WHO IS A LEGAL
U.S. RESIDENT.
U.S. RESIDENT. THE GOVERNMENT OF TURKEY HAS
BEEN DEMANDING THAT HE BE HANDED
OVER BY THE U.S. TO TURKEY SO
THEY CAN GO AFTER HIM FOR LOTS
OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
HOW ARE ISSUES LIKE THAT USUALLY
HANDLED AS A MATTER OF U.S. LAW
ENFORCEMENT?
ENFORCEMENT? >> WELL, A FORMAL REQUEST FOR
EXTRADITION BY A FOREIGN
GOVERNMENT WOULD BE PUT INTO A
PROCESS THAT’S WELL ESTABLISHED
WITHIN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
CAREER OFFICIALS WITHIN THE
OFFICE OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS
AND ALSO WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT
WOULD EVALUATE THE VALIDITY AND
LEGITIMACY OF THE, REQUEST,
DETERMINE WHETHER IT IN FACT
REFLECTS A LAWFUL CHARGE UNDER
TURKISH LAW, AND WHETHER THAT
SAME OFFENSE CHARGED IN TURKEY
IS ALSO AN OFFENSE UNDER U.S.
LAW, BECAUSE THERE HAS TO BE
SOMETHING CALLED DUAL
CRIMINALITY IN ORDER FOR THE
UNITED STATES TO BE IN A
POSITION TO EXTRADITE SOMEONE
HERE TO TURKEY.
THAT WOULDN’T BE THE END OF THE
PROCESS, THOUGH.
PROCESS, THOUGH. IF THE INDIVIDUAL COULD LODGE
SOMETHING CALLED A POLITICAL
OFFENSE CLAIM, CLAIMING THAT THE
REQUEST FROM TURKEY IS REALLY
POLITICALLY MOTIVATED, THEN
THERE ARE DEFENSES THAT COULD BE
ASSERTED TO PRECLUDE
EXTRADITION.
EXTRADITION. >> IN TERMS OF THIS PARTICULAR
CLERIC, IT’S BEEN WIDELY
REPORTED THAT THERE HAVE BEEN
MULTIPLE REPORTS FROM THE
TURKISH GOVERNMENT, MULTIPLE
FORMS OF PRESSURE FROM THE
TURKISH GOVERNMENT THAT THEY
REALLY WANT TO GET THEIR HANDS
ON HIM.
ON HIM. THEY WANT HIM TO BE EXTRADITED.
AND WHETHER THAT HAS TAKEN THE
FORM OF FORMAL EXTRADITION
REQUESTS, OR WHETHER THAT’S
TAKEN THE FORM OF POLITICAL
PRESSURE AND LOBBYING, I THINK
DEPENDS ON THE ACCOUNT.
BUT IS THIS A SPECIFIC PERSON
WHO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAS
CONSIDERED IN THE PAST IN TERMS
OF THESE TURKISH REQUESTS AND
TURKISH PRESSURE, AND THAT THE
U.S. IN THE PAST HAS DECIDED NO,
HE SHOULDN’T BE HANDED OVER?
>> I THINK THE REPORTING YOU
DESCRIBED INDICATE THERE’S
ALREADY HAS OCCURRED A CAREFUL
VETTING BY DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
OFFICIALS, CAREER OFFICIALS WHO
DO THIS FOR A LIVING IN AN
ASSESSMENT MADE THERE WASN’T
SUFFICIENT GROUNDS FOR
EXTRADITION.
EXTRADITION. WHAT APPEAR NEWS WITH IF THIS
NEW REPORTING IS TRUE IS THAT
THE WHITE HOUSE IS ATTEMPTING TO
STRONG ARM CAREER OFFICIALS A
THE DEPARTMENT AND ELSEWHERE AT
OTHER AGENCIES INTO
MANUFACTURING A GROUNDS TO
REMOVE MR. GULEN TO TURKEY OR
ELSEWHERE.
ELSEWHERE. >> THAT IS ABSOLUTELY WHAT THE
REPORTING SAYS.
REPORTING SAYS. IF IN FACT THIS REPORTING IS
ACCURATE.
ACCURATE. I JUST HAVE TO ASK YOUR
ASSESSMENT AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS
BEEN THERE AND HAS DEALT WITH
THESE SORT OF THINGS, HOW BIG
OF -- HOW BIG A DEAL IS THIS?
HOW UNUSUAL IS THIS?
AND HOW LOUDLY WOULD YOU EXPECT
PEOPLE IN THE AGENCIES,
INCLUDING THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT, TO SQUAWK OVER THIS
KIND OF PRESSURE FROM THE WHITE
HOUSE TO REVERSE THE DECISIONS,
REVERSE THE VIEWS OF CAREER
OFFICIALS WHO WORK ON THESE
THINGS AS A PROFESSOR MATTER?
>> I THINK IT WOULD BE UNUSUAL
IF THE FACTS AS REPORTED ARE
TRUE.
TRUE. AS I SAID, THERE HAS ALREADY
BEEN A VERY CAREFUL VETTING OF
THE VALIDITY OF THE TURKISH
GOVERNMENT’S REQUEST, AND THIS
IS MAYBE NOT EVEN A SECOND BITE
OF THE APPLE, BUT A THIRD OR
FOURTH BITE OF THE APPLE.
SO IT APPEARS THEY ARE TRYING TO
CREATE A PRETEXT UNDER SOME SORT
OF FACTS TO EJECT MR. GULEN OUT
OF THE UNITED STATES IN ORDER TO
PLAY INDICATE THE ERDOGAN
REGIME, TO SOOTHE THE CURRENT
HOSTILITY TOWARD THE SAUDI
GOVERNMENT IN ORDER TO APPEASE A
REGIME THAT OUR OWN INTELLIGENCE
COMMUNITY ALLEGE HAS COMMITTED
ONE OF THE GROSSEST HUMAN RIGHTS
ATROCITIES IN HUMAN MEMORY.
>> DAVID LOFTON, IT’S ALWAYS AN
HONOR TO HAVE YOU HERE, SIR.
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME TONIGHT.
>> THANK YOU, RACHEL.
>> THE FRAMING THAT MR. LOUGHMAN
PUT ON THERE, IF YOU COMBINE
THIS ARE WITH REPORTING FROM
"THE WASHINGTON POST," THAT THE
CROWN PRINCE OF SAUDI ARABIA
ORDERED THE MURDER OF THIS U.S.
JOURNALIST, THE CROWN PRINCE
ORDERS THAT, U.S. JOURNALIST
GETS MURDERED, TURKEY RAISES THE
ALARM ABOUT IT AND SAYS, YOU
KNOW, WE’VE GOT EVIDENCE THAT
THAT HAPPENED.
THAT HAPPENED. IT HAPPENED ON OUR SOIL.
IT HAPPENED IN OUR COUNTRY.
WELL THINK SAUDI ARABIA DID IT.
NOW THE U.S. IS OFFERING, WHAT
CAN WE GIVE YOU, TURKEY, IN
ORDER TO MAKE YOU STOP MAKING SO
MUCH NOISE ABOUT WHAT SAUDI
ARABIA DID HERE.
HOW CAN WE PLAY INDICATE YOU AND
CALM YOU DOWN AND QUIET YOU DOWN
IN YOUR UPSET OVER WHAT SAUDI
ARABIA DID HERE?
JAMAL KHASHOGGI WAS A U.S.
RESIDENT, WORKED FOR THE
FREAKIN’ "WASHINGTON POST."
HE WAS A U.S. JOURNALIST.
WE OUGHT TO BE THE ONES WHO
SOMEBODY IS TRYING TO PLAY
INDICATE HERE.
INDICATE HERE. WE SHOULDN’T BE -- RIGHT?
IF THE SAUDIS DID THIS, AND IF
THE CIA KNOWS THAT THE SAUDIS
DID THIS, WE’RE TRYING TO KEEP
OTHER PEOPLE QUIET FROM
COMPLAINING ABOUT SAUDIS DOING
THIS?
THIS? AND IN DOING SO, WE’RE MAYBE
GOING TO HAND OVER SOMEBODY
WE’RE PRETTY DARN SURE THEY’RE
GOING TO TORTURE AND KILL ONCE
HE GETS THERE?