>>> DO YOU THINK PRIVATE
CITIZENS SHOULD BE TAKING --
>> I’D LIKE TO SEE LAW
ENFORCEMENT TAKE CARE OF
EVERYTHING.
I THINK EVERYTHING SHOULD BE
TAKEN CARE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.
BUT, AGAIN, WE HAVE TO GIVE OUR
COPS BACK, OUR POLICE BACK THEIR
DIGNITY, THEIR RESPECT.
THEY’RE VERY TALENTED PEOPLE.
>> AFTER RECENT PROTESTS HAVE
TURNED DEADLY, THERE IS GROWING
CONCERN ABOUT THE PRESENCE OF
ARMED CIVILIANS AT
DEMONSTRATIONS.
"THE WASHINGTON POST" REPORTS
THAT POLICE ARE FACING
COMPLAINTS FOR TOLERATING
VIGILANTES.
QUOTE, THE STATED MOTIVES OF
THESE VIGILANTE ACTORS WHO ARE
VIRTUALLY INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM
ONE ANOTHER ONCE MASKED ON THE
STREETS, RANGE FROM PROTECTING
STOREFRONTS AND FREE SPEECH TO
FURTHERING WHITE SUPREMACY AND
FOMENTING CIVIL WAR.
BACK WITH US TONIGHT, FRANK
FIGLIUZZI, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT
DIRECTOR FOR
COUNTERINTELLIGENCE.
HE IS THE AUTHOR OF THE UPCOMING
BOOK "THE FBI’S WAY: INSIDE THE
BUREAU’S CODE OF EXCELLENCE."
FRANK, THANKS FOR JOINING US.
I THINK IN THAT EXCERPT I JUST
READ THERE, WE GET TO AN
IMPORTANT QUESTION HERE BECAUSE
YOU SEE THESE VIDEOS, READ THESE
REPORTS COMING OUT OF VARIOUS
CITIES, AND YOU SEE CHAOS.
YOU SEE THE CAMERA LOOKING THIS
WAY, THAT WAY.
YOU SEE DOZENS OF PEOPLE HERE,
DOZENS OF PEOPLE THERE.
TO TRY TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE,
SOMEBODY WHO IS ARMED,
PROTECTING THEIR BUSINESS
BECAUSE THEY FEEL, PERHAPS
RIGHTFULLY SO, THE POLICE CAN’T
GET TO IT THAT NIGHT VERSUS
SOMEBODY WHO IS PART OF A
MILITIA MOVEMENT, PART OF A
GROUP THAT’S ACTIVELY SEEKING TO
PROMOTE VIOLENCE.
HOW CAN YOU TELL THE DIFFERENCE
IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS?
>> STEVE, YOU’RE RIGHT TO ASK
THE QUESTION BECAUSE THE JOB OF
LAW ENFORCEMENT AND WHAT THEY’RE
GOING TO FACE IN THE NEXT COUPLE
OF MONTHS IS PERHAPS THE MOST
DIFFICULT CHALLENGE THEY’VE
FACED SINCE 9/11.
WE ARE ESSENTIALLY AT A KIND
OF 9/11 BUT AN EVEN MORE COMPLEX
ONE BECAUSE OF THE ONLINE NATURE
OF TRYING TO FERRET OUT WHO IN
THAT CHAT ROOM, WHO IN THAT
BLOG, WHO IN THAT TWEETSTORM IS
REALLY MEANING TO ACT OUT ON
VIOLENCE AND WHO ISN’T, AND WHO
ARE THE BAD GUYS AND THE GOOD
GUYS.
AND IT’S AN INCREDIBLY
CHALLENGING JOB MADE EVEN HARDER
BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES HIMSELF, WHO SEEMS TO NOT
ONLY NOT WANT TO DENOUNCE ALL
VIOLENCE BUT RATHER SEEMS TO BE
ENCOURAGING IT AND EVEN PERHAPS
OFFERING A DEFENSE FOR THE
17-YEAR-OLD KYLE RITTENHOUSE IN
KENOSHA, SAYING THAT HE MAY HAVE
ACTED IN SELF-DEFENSE.
SO WE’VE GOT A PROBLEM ON OUR
HANDS.
LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS A GREAT
CHALLENGE ON THEIR HANDS.
AND BY THE WAY, STEVE, LAW
ENFORCEMENT IS NOT FULLY
EQUIPPED WITH ALL OF THE
LEGISLATIVE AND INVESTIGATIVE
TECHNIQUES THAT THEY WOULD HAVE
IF THEY WERE FACING AN
INTERNATIONAL TERROR THREAT
BECAUSE THERE ARE NO DOMESTIC
TERRORISM LAWS PER SE.
LAW ENFORCEMENT DOESN’T WANT TO
MONITOR IDEOLOGY OR THOUGHT.
THEY ALMOST HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE
VIOLENCE TO BE ADVOCATED BEFORE
THEY CAN TAKE DOWN A SITE OR
TAKE DOWN A GROUP.
SO IT’S AN INCREDIBLY TENSE TIME
THAT WE’RE LOOKING AT.
>> YEAH.
I’M CURIOUS TOO.
WHEN YOU SEE THESE VARIOUS
SCENES, WHETHER IT IS IN
KENOSHA, PORTLAND, SOME OF THESE
OTHER CITIES, TAKE US THROUGH
WHAT YOU ARE SEEING AND HOW YOU
WOULD ANALYZE IT IN TERMS OF DO
YOU SEE PRIMARILY -- DO YOU
THINK YOU ARE PRIMARILY SEEING
FOLKS WHO ARE PARTS OF THESE
GROUPS, FOLK WHO’S HAD SOME
ONLINE INVOLVEMENT THAT LED THEM
TO GO OUT TO THE STREET, YOU
KNOW, FOLKS -- LET’S SAY IT’S
RIGHT WING MILITIA.
SOME ON THE RIGHT WILL SAY WHAT
ABOUT ANTIFA ON THE LEFT?
DO YOU THINK YOU’RE PRIMARILY
SEEING FOLKS THAT ARE PART OF
SOMETHING THAT’S ORGANIZED, OR
DO YOU THINK THERE’S A LARGE
COMPONENT OF THIS TOO WHO REALLY
ARE JUST FOLKS FROM THE
COMMUNITY WHO MAYBE THINK
THEY’RE DEFENDING A BUSINESS OR
MAYBE ARE JUST PART OF A
PROTEST.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE BALANCE IS
THERE?
DO YOU HAVE A WAY OF ASSESSING
THAT?
>> YEAH.
I THINK -- SO THE FACTS BECOME
REALLY IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY IF
YOU WANT TO COUNTER A THREAT AND
IDENTIFY IT.
YOU’VE GOT TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK,
AND YOU’VE GOT TO KNOW WHAT
YOU’RE DEALING WITH.
SO THE ANSWER, STEVE, IS ALL OF
THE ABOVE.
THE LAW ENFORCEMENT SOURCES I
TALK TO, THE PRIVATE
INTELLIGENCE ANALYSTS THAT I
TALK TO TELL ME THEY’RE SEEING
THE FULGHAML GAMUT HERE.
SO PEOPLE ARE RESPONDING TO A
CALL TO ARMS.
THE SHOOTING IN KENOSHA BY KYLE
RITTENHOUSE HAS CAUSED HIM TO
BECOME A HERO ONLINE TO
EXTREMIST GROUPS, RADICAL
VIOLENT GROUPS, MILITIA GROUPS,
NEO-NAZI AND QAnon.
THEY ALL THINK HE’S SOME KIND OF
HERO, AND THEY ARE ANSWERING A
CALL TO SEEK REVENGE AGAINST
ANYBODY WHO WOULD TAKE ISSUE
WITH KYLE.
THE SAME CALL IS GOING OUT IN
THE PORTLAND AREA FOR THE DEATH
OF A TRUMP SUPPORTER.
THEY THINK THAT’S, QUOTE, THE
FIRST SHOT FIRED IN A CIVIL WAR.
BUT, STEVE, LAW ENFORCEMENT ALSO
TELLS ME THE PEOPLE THERE ARE
ARRESTING FOR CRIMES, FOR
VIOLENCE, FOR PROPERTY VIOLENCE
ARE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE AND
THE MAJORITY ARE OUT FOR ONLY
ONE THING, AND THAT’S
CRIMINALITY.
AND THEN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
ORGANIZED TOWARD VIOLENCES, MY
LAW ENFORCEMENT SOURCES TELL ME
THEY ARE BY AND LARGE ON THE FAR
RIGHT.
THEY’RE NOT EXCLUSIVELY THERE,
BUT WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO
SEEMS NOT TO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE
THAT AND AN ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO
SEEMS NOT TO WANT TO CALL THAT
OUT.
SO THEY’RE GOING TO FEEL
EMPOWERED, AND WHAT LAW
ENFORCEMENT SOURCES TELL ME IS
THEY’RE SEEING A KIND OF
RADICALIZATION PROCESS TAKE
PLACE ONLINE THAT IS
UNFORTUNATELY VERY SIMILAR TO
THE KIND OF RADICALIZATION
PROCESS WE SAW IN THE VIOLENT
ISLAMIC JIHADIST MOVEMENT, AND
THAT’S A BAD RECIPE THAT WE’RE
LOOKING AT.
>> WELL, RIGHT.
IT SEEMS TO -- JUST LISTENING TO
YOU, I’M THINKING HOPEFULLY
THERE ARE NO MORE INCIDENCES
LIKE KENOSHA OR ANYTHING THAT
MIGHT BRING THIS OUT.
BUT IF THERE IS ONE, IT SOUNDS
LIKE YOU’VE GOT FOLKS THERE WHO
ARE JUST WAITING FOR IT, AND IT
GETS -- IT ESCALATES.
>> IT SEEMS TO FEED --
EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS SEEMS TO
FEED THE CONSPIRACY THEORY OF
THE DAY OR THE MOMENT, AND IT
BECOMES A SELF-FULFILLING
PROPHECY.
AND PEOPLE WHO ARE TROUBLED,
SEEKING -- AND RADICALIZED NOW
SPEAKING TO BELONG TO A CAUSE
GREATER THAN THEMSELVES, SEEKING
TO BELONG TO SOME GROUP THAT
WILL AFFIRM THEM EVEN THOUGH
THEY’VE NEVER MET THESE FOLKS,
THEY WILL TURN OUT.
AND WHAT WE NEED IS A PRESIDENT
TO COME OUT AND SAY, THIS IS AN
UN-AMERICAN ACT.
THIS IS NOT A PATRIOTIC ACT TO
COMMIT VIOLENCE IN THE STREETS.
THAT’S ABOUT THE ONLY THING THAT