G'day.
I'm Shane Webcke, Queensland Safety Ambassador.
As a farmer and a business owner myself
I know firsthand how important it is
to work safely on farms.
Each year around 45 workers' compensation claims
are accepted for workers who have been injured
working in or around a stock yard or feedlot.
And half of these claims involve a serious injury
where the worker needs five or more days off work.
Obviously these injuries need to stop.
That's why it's good today to talk to Byron Wolff,
Managing Director of Thompson Longhorn.
Byron, good to see you. Great to be here, Shane. Now all things in agriculture seemingly now
are about taking up of technology,
and everything that comes with it.
Obviously efficiency.
But it has been my view,
and I think maybe you'd agree with me,
it's the uptake of that technology that makes,
number one, the job more efficient.
Sure.
But seemingly that goes hand in hand
with making it safer. Absolutely.
And I'm assuming that in your business,
which is building stock handling systems and equipment,
it's at the forefront of what you do.
Now you've got a case study about using drones
to analyse, design and improve cattle handling practices.
Tell us about that.
So back in 2014,
we set about to do an analysis on a whole series
of stockyards for a particular client.
And we had to collect a lot of data
and observe what was happening with the people
and the livestock in a fairly short period of time.
So that's when we investigated drones
and bought our first drone.
And went through the process of observing behaviour
in cattle yards.
There's a few interesting things you learn
when you do that.
Drones were excellent
in as much as we could get a bird's eye view
and the livestock weren't bothered by them.
And the operators weren't bothered by them.
So it gave us the opportunity
to be able to have a really clear look at what was happening
while people were operating in close proximity to stock.
Make some observations,
and then leading on from that be able
to make some design changes,
or even operational changes to the way people
operated their facilities based on what we could show them
that they were actually doing.
So that's both the actions of the people
handling the livestock
and the actions of the livestock themselves.
Absolutely.
So what did it tell you?
What did you learn?
If you can pick the most prominent things
that came out of it,
what was the most important thing that you observed?
It's very easy to see when an operator
stands in a position that doesn't work well
with the flow of livestock.
And it's fairly easy to be able
to make a fairly simple change,
move their position or change what they're doing
and then observe the result.
So there's a very short feedback loop on that
and it gives you the ability to be able
to demonstrate to the end user why the change is required.
Often I guess if we haven't been to a particular site
or worked in a cattle yard before,
there might be the view that you don't understand
or you haven't worked here before,
or you don't know our livestock.
Our livestock are different to your livestock.
They're all different.
But it's pretty simple to make a change
and then have a look.
Put the drone back there, watch it again,
see what the outcome is.
And then easy to demonstrate the result.
It'd be fair to say though, it is the use of the drones,
which has allowed you to properly be able to look at this,
because as you say neither the livestock or the people,
because they're unobtrusive and they're sitting up there
and they forget they're there.
So you actually get a true indication
of what really goes on, on a day-to-day basis.
Yeah, you get the unabridged version.
There's no pretense, there's no pretending.
It's real and the great thing about seeing what's real
is then you can see what,
well, to us it becomes really obvious
about what the real change is that needs to happen.
So to be able to get the view
where there's no outside influence
is actually fairly difficult.
An observer usually has to be close to the action
to see what's happening.
Drones allow us to be close to the action,
but not change the outcome of the behavior.
Now tell me this.
Farmers, and we're both from that background,
can be a peculiar breed,
in as much as things like someone putting a drone
on their place is a completely intrusive thing
in their mind.
And then, of course, what comes out of that.
Have you had any pushback where you put a drone up
and you see the operation of the cattle yard.
And then you sit there with an owner
and you have to show them some pretty uncomfortable stuff,
which is occurring.
Is there any pushback in terms of,
"Oh, well that's one thing to look at it from a drone,
but this is what happens in reality?
Blah, blah, blah."
Do you get any of that?
No, I can't think of an example where we've had that.
I've gotta say that the adoption of technology
in agriculture is actually typically quite refreshing,
because these people, I guess,
traditionally haven't had resources available
until the invent of the internet of course
where all answers are on Google.
But before that, they're limited in what resources
they can get access to.
So therefore, they become a particularly resourceful breed.
I think it would be fair to say that generally,
we get quite a positive response,
and even I can think of one particular example
of a yard that we were working in the Northern Territory
where there was a particular stock hand
that simply moved up and back a raceway all day
just to simply move livestock.
So from a drone's perspective he had a green shirt on.
It just looked like there was this green dog if you like
running up and back at the raceway all day
pushing these cattle down.
It was a really good graphic example to the management.
And so those type of visual representations
make it the type of thing that's easy to see the outcome,
easy to see what's going on.
Therefore, accepted well.
So when they observe a behaviour that perhaps,
it's like we all do these things over a period of years
and bad habits tend to creep in.
Is there any time where you've done this
and put a drone up,
and what you start to observe is, okay,
you're looking for the efficiencies of stock handling,
but also the safety aspect of that.
Is there any times that they get to look
at some behaviours that they've sort of,
it's become habitual, which actually is quite dangerous,
and they're not even really aware that they're doing it?
Yeah, I think that's a very good point you make,
because I think we, in the workplace generally,
will slip into those habits,
where we might have started off with good intentions.
And then we've sort of made it a bit quicker
or cut the corner or whatever it is to get--
Like a faster result
To get a different result, you know?
Or to get a faster result.
And then it becomes further and further removed
from what their original intention was.
It might become all about getting the job done
and not necessarily about getting home safe tonight.
So definitely I think when people get to see this stuff
they can sort of review that and realise
that what they're doing isn't what they actually
in a lot of cases intended to do to begin with.
So it occurs to me that the drones particularly
will be important in a great many agricultural pursuits.
But it is worth reminding people
that, while work safety laws encourage the use
of such technology to reduce work risks,
it's the Civil Aviation Safety Authority
that has overall responsibility for the drone regulation
in Australia.
So for people who are considering
based on what we're talking about today, using them,
contact CASA to discuss the regulations
and legislations surrounding commercial drone use
in Queensland.
So I'm thinking about my own self now.
We run sheep, which is obviously an industry
plagued by the wild dog, dingoes.
Sure. So I'm thinking about things
that drones, outside of what you've just described
that you've used them for, where they will be useful.
And all sorts of things come to mind.
Number one would be any sort of feral pest,
either tracking pigs, dogs,
and then plant pests, in crops and that.
Drones really, I think,
will become an incredibly important tool
for farmers moving forward.
And particularly in the time saving aspect
of not having to do it on foot in real time.
It's a good point you make because even though we
are in the livestock equipment business,
we're also actually farmers as well, as you mentioned earlier.
And even on our own farming operations
we've used drones to have a look at cropping
and it's quite obvious.
In one particular instance, we had an agronomist
that was recommending centering watering rates
and we followed that.
There was one spot in the paddock
where the central pivot irrigator stopped
and ran in this one spot.
The yield in that area and the change in the crop
was actually so obvious from the drone footage
that we could kind of work out
that some of the agronomy wasn't right.
So that's in an agriculture sense.
You know, crop sense.
In cattle yards,
the same type of efficiencies are there.
Whether we can get a look at what's going on
and make a permanent infrastructure change.
That means every time we go to the cattle yard
we pick up that safety benefit.
We pick up that efficiency benefit.
The second part of that is then, of course,
the hardest part and that's rejigging the people.
Would you agree with this observation,
'cause I was thinking about it today
and knew that we'd be talking around technology
and all the rest of it.
And then I started thinking about the great many things
that technology has given us,
in terms, all the jobs that we know and do,
fencing, handling livestock,
any number of things.
Would you agree that each time that technology is employed
in the name of efficiency,
what goes hand in hand with that
is it makes it safer?
Just about everything I know that made a job quicker
and more efficient, it also has made it safer.
And I can think of very few examples
where the opposite is true.
Oh, I think that's absolutely true.
Because at the end of the day the efficiency
is gained often in a cattle yard by improving,
not only the infrastructure and the handling,
but by reducing the amount of interactions
between livestock and people where possible.
So to become more efficient
we use less people in the cattle yard.
We can only do that through clever design.
Clever design is able to happen
because we're able to make those observations,
which the drone allows us to do.
So by using the drones to get a clear picture
on what's happening, improving the design,
reducing the people, calmer people, calmer livestock,
safer workplace.
It makes sense.
What do you reckon comes next?
So you've employed this technology
and things are always evolving and changing,
and at Thompson Longhorn you're renowned for that.
And you always seem to be at the technological forefront
of a lot of things with livestock handling.
What's the next big innovation do you think?
I think the next thing that'll happen
is we'll see the ability,
and we've played with this already,
but it's not really in the commercial space yet.
But I think what we'll find is that we will be able
to do 3D augmentations of designs.
So we will be able to use that data we've collected
from the drone to help us build a virtual model
of your yard or your workspace.
And then we'll give you a set of glasses
and you will walk through the yard
and actually walk through it on your place,
in your location.
And go, "Oh yeah, I can see how that fits in
with my existing shearing shed," in your case.
Yes. I see where the trucks
will park or where they'll unload.
I see where the stock will come in.
And you'll be able to get a really good feeling
and appreciation of what that design
would look like finished.
And I guess you'll be able to,
we as a supplier to the customer will be able to say,
this is how it'll work and this will all work
and we need you to experience it.
Which is obviously critically important,
because what we're talking about is a capital expenditure.
A major capital expenditure. Significant.
Which is important.
And justifiable when you can truly understand
that it makes your business better i.e. safer.
That's right.
So once you've got that ability to interact
with this virtual thing
that's not even a stick of steel cut yet.
But you can interact with that and work out what's it like,
how it's like, whether you think it's right,
you think it's wrong, whatever.
That initial ability to work through those things
before you invest in what's a significant amount of money
in a lot of cases,
gives the people a lot of comfort around that
as a purchasing decision.
And why that's a smart thing to do for their business.
So for a number of reasons in agriculture
for a long time, there was a reluctance,
I don't think it was a reluctance to spend the money
to improve these things,
but the money just simply wasn't there.
And a lot of agricultural producers
for want of a better description
had put up with what they've had
because that's all they could afford to have.
Do you see a change in the way people are thinking,
and obviously with buoyant cattle and sheep markets,
a preparedness to make those capital investments,
which obviously make the business more efficient.
But once again, we get back to the same thing,
make it safer.
Is there a more of a willingness to do so
for any number of reasons?
I definitely think there is,
and of course it's underpinned by availability
of finance or funding.
But I think that generally the livestock handling systems
on a property are now probably seen
as much more a central and pivotal role to the business.
I like to use the example of the Toyota Land Cruiser wagon.
This car, brand new, is worth 100, 120 grand
and a lot of our friends and clients,
that's just the vehicle you need to do the job.
And that's because they know it's safe,
they know it's got a lot of features about it
that suits their family and looking after their family.
The cattle yard or the sheep yard,
it's traditionally just been a mechanism
or a tool to get a job done.
I think it's now becoming more obvious
that this is a central point in their business,
not just a tool to get a job done.
And so we need to be able to take those people
that we work with or that are our family members.
Often you know yourself that your workforce
is often your family members.
The people you love and care about.
Have gotta go to work and be safe at work
and come home and not spend all day in the cattle yards.
I often tell people that I don't think any
of our new cattle yards have ever been responsible
for a divorce.
(both laughing)
Which is a true measure of their success.
It is.
If I can recall my mother and father
interacting in our sheep yards many many years ago,
it was not a pleasant experience.
Absolutely.
So that's the point.
It's gotta be a pleasant experience
for operators and livestock.
A safe experience for both.
And obviously we're much more focused now in Australia
in our production systems around animal welfare as well.
So we've got to make sure that it doesn't take weeks
to get the job done,
and therefore, we have poor animal husbandry.
Poor animal welfare.
That it's simple, it's efficient, it's safe.
And we can get that job done and get onto the other things,
'cause these businesses are getting bigger and bigger
or more and more complex.
There's a lot of things that as a business owner
we have to get done in the cattle yards.
Just as a final question,
I might just get your view on this
because it's a well known fact how dangerous agriculture is
and the statistics prove
that it is the most dangerous industry in this country.
More people are hurt and, killed rather, and hurt
in the pursuit of that than just about anything else.
We both have grown up on farms and been around agriculture,
and that means that you will know someone
who's been either badly hurt or killed
as a result of that occupation.
What's your view on where it's headed
in terms of people's,
'cause the other thing that has contributed to that
is a very poor attitude towards safety.
And it's very much been a secondary thing
for a long, long time.
Do you see a shift in that
or is it something that still requires some attention?
I think it is shifting.
I think it still requires plenty of attention.
To be fair I think originally it was seen
as a measure that was being enforced through regulation
where I think there's been a change in attitudes
in the way that that's been implemented
and rolled out probably from a regulatory level.
There's been a lot more effort going into making sure
that programs around safety in the bush
are being much more, I guess, cooperative
or a shared approach,
and I think that gets a lot better result.
Definitely in the space that we work in,
it's becoming a much more focal point
in the livestock handling.
I think that's also driven partially
because unfortunately there's not that many young people
going back into the bush
and we're seeing older and older users in the stockyards.
Well, Byron, look, it's been an absolute pleasure
to talk to you today.
I've known you for some time
and I know at the core of you
is a deep care for, number one, agriculture,
but also the business of livestock handling.
And you do that very, very well.
So I do hope today has inspired you
to think about whether you can use drones
or such technology to help you work smarter,
work safer, and more productively.
Once again, Byron, thanks for your time.
Thank you very much, Shane.
It's been a pleasure to be here.
And please remember before any work begins
on your property, stop and consider the safer
and smarter way to do your work.
Exactly what we've been talking about here today.
And make sure your staff also, most importantly,
are trained on how to do that job properly.
For more information and practical farm safety resources,
visit worksafe.qld.gov.au.