WILL NOT DO THAT.
THIS VOTE WILL BE CALLED VERY
SOON IN THE HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES.
WE HAVE BREAKING NEWS AT THIS
HOUR FROM AXIOS.
AXIOS IS REPORTING THAT THERE’S
A BETTER THAN 50/50 CHANCE THAT
SENATE MAJORITY LEADER MITCH
McCONNELL WOULD VOTE TO CONVICT
PRESIDENT TRUMP IN AN
IMPEACHMENT TRIAL, SOURCES TELL
AXIOS.
THE McCONNELL NEWS IS CHANGING
BY THE HOUR ON THIS IMPEACHMENT
STORY.
WE’RE JOINED NOW BY EUGENE
ROBINSON, ASSOCIATE EDITOR AND
PULITZER PRIZE WINNING COLUMNIST
FOR THE "WASHINGTON POST" AND
FORMER REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN
DAVID JOLLY WHO LEFT THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY IN 2018.
BOTH ARE MSNBC POLITICAL
ANALYSTS.
EUGENE, IT IS MOVING FAST.
AXIOS REPORTING ON THESE SORTS
OF THINGS HAS BEEN REASONABLY
RELIABLE.
THIS IS MIKE ALLEN REPORTING
THIS FOR AXIOS.
HE HAS VERY GOOD SOURCES.
I PERSONALLY DON’T LIKE THAT
KIND OF -- THAT RACETRACK STUFF
OF 50/50 ODDS.
>> YEAH.
>> THAT’S NOT THE KIND OF
DESCRIPTION THAT MAKES SENSE TO
ME IN THE SENATE.
IT COULD MEAN ANYTHING.
WE’VE ALREADY SEEN McCONNELL
DEFINITELY MAKE THE CHOICE OF
LETTING IT BE KNOWN, KNOWING IT
WOULD SEEP OUT TO "THE NEW YORK
TIMES," THAT HE IS GLAD THIS
IMPEACHMENT IS HAPPENING.
>> YEAH.
I THINK THAT’S WHAT McCONNELL IS
DOING TODAY.
HE IS -- HE IS LETTING IT
KNOWN -- LETTING IT BE KNOWN
THAT HE IS DONE WITH DONALD
TRUMP AND HE IS APPALLED AT WHAT
HAPPENED LAST WEEK AND HOW THE
PRESIDENT INCITED IT AND -- AND
I DON’T KNOW IF HE WOULD
ACTUALLY VOTE FOR IMPEACHMENT,
BUT THE FACT THAT HE HAS PUT
THIS OUT THERE AND IT DOESN’T
GET OUT FROM McCONNELL UNLESS HE
WANTS IT OUT, IN CONJUNCTION
WITH LIZ CHENEY’S STATEMENT
ABOUT HOW SHE’S GOING TO VOTE
FOR IMPEACHMENT AND I WOULD
WAGER A LOT OF MONEY THAT THERE
WAS COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE
TWO.
CERTAINLY BETWEEN THE TWO CAMPS,
BETWEEN THE PRINCIPALS, IS A
SIGNAL AND IT’S GIVING COVER TO
REPUBLICANS TO VOTE FOR
IMPEACHMENT AND TO VOTE TO
CONVICT.
IF THEY WISH TO DO SO.
BUT I’M NOT GOING TO, YOU KNOW,
MAKE BOLD PREDICTIONS ABOUT THE
FEVER, THE TRUMP FEVER, HAVING
BROKEN YET IN THE -- IN THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY.
I’LL, YOU KNOW, I’LL BELIEVE
THAT WHEN I SEE IT ACTUALLY
HAPPEN.
IT’S -- FOR ONE THING, I THINK,
FRANKLY, THERE ARE A LOT OF
THESE REPUBLICAN HOUSE MEMBERS
AND SOME SENATORS WHO ARE
PHYSICALLY AFRAID OF WHAT WILL
HAPPEN TO THEM AT THE HANDS OF
THEIR CONSTITUENTS IF THEY VOTE
FOR IMPEACHMENT OR IF THEY VOTE
TO CONVICT.
I MEAN, THAT’S WHAT DONALD TRUMP
HAS DONE TO THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY.
AND THEY LET IT HAPPEN.
THEY BENEFITED FROM IT.
AND NOW THEY’RE AT ITS MERCY.
>> DAVID JOLLY, YOUR REACTION TO
WHAT WE’RE LEARNING TONIGHT IN
THE REPORTING BY "THE NEW YORK
TIMES," ESPECIALLY, ABOUT MITCH
McCONNELL --
>> SURE.
>> -- HAVING BASICALLY A
COOPERATIVE TELEPHONE CALL WITH
JOE BIDEN ABOUT THE PROCEDURES
FOR AN IMPEACHMENT TRIAL IN THE
SENATE AS WELL AS THE ADDITIONAL
REPORTING THAT McCONNELL,
HIMSELF, MIGHT, MIGHT, AXIOS IS
SAYING, VOTE TO CONVICT DONALD
TRUMP IN A SENATE TRIAL.
>> YEAH, LAWRENCE, I THINK IT’S
IMPORTANT TO CONTEXTUALIZE WHAT
WE’RE SEEING AMONG REPUBLICANS
RIGHT NOW, AND I MEAN THAT ON A
COUPLE LAYERS.
FIRST, TO CONTEXTUALIZE IT
AROUND THE FACT THAT HAD DONALD
TRUMP NOT INCITED AN
INSURRECTION AGAINST THE UNITED
STATES, AGAINST THE CAPITOL,
AGAINST THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE
MEMBERS, HE STILL WOULD HAVE
FULL CONTROL OVER THE PARTY.
SO THE NOTION THAT THIS IS THE
BREAKING POINT IS SIGNIFICANT
BECAUSE THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT
FOR FOUR YEARS HAVE ALLOWED
DONALD TRUMP TO GET TO THIS
MOMENT.
AND THEN SECONDLY, I THINK THE
VERDICT IS STILL OUT.
WE DON’T KNOW IF THIS -- IF THIS
IS A REAL CRACK WITHIN THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY BECAUSE THE
PEOPLE WE ARE SEEING COME OUT,
McCONNELL INCLUDED, ARE NOT
REALLY SURPRISING TO BE THE
FIRST ONES OUT.
RIGHT?
KATKO, KINZINGER, McCONNELL,
CHENEY.
THOSE AREN’T THE REAL SURPRISES.
THAT’S NOT THE BEDROCK TRUMP
BASE.
AND SO IT MAY BE THAT THE
FISSURE STOPS THERE AND THE REAL
TRUMP REPUBLICAN PARTY HOLDS
THIS WEEK, BUT ON McCONNELL, WE
CAN’T TAKE AWAY THE POWER OF A
LEADERSHIP SHIFT, A REAL
LEADERSHIP SHIFT.
IF McCONNELL WERE TO SHIFT, IT
GIVES PERMISSION TO EVERY OTHER
REPUBLICAN SENATOR TO CONSIDER
THAT VOTE AGAIN AND ASSUMING ALL
DEMOCRATS VOTE TO CONVICT,