China has its sights set on Africa
And is becoming a neo-colonial power
And that means support for Africa’s worst dictators
Welcome to China Uncensored, I’m Chris Chappell.
Africa is caught in the stranglehold of dictators who keep their people divided
and beaten down. And China is giving them the tools to do it,
in exchange for the economic wealth of their countries.
I spoke to Nigerian activist and musician DJ Switchat the Oslo Freedom Forum in Miami,
where she told me about the chilling effect China is having in Nigeria.
Thanks so much for joining me today.
DJ Switch: Thank you for having me.
Chris: A lot of Americans might not really know much about Nigeria,
why don't you give us a little bit of a rundown of the situation that's happened there.
DJ Switch: Well, it is where the world began. I'm just kidding.
Chris: We're going way back.
DJ Switch: Well, Nigeria is pretty much at the heart of Africa.
It is the largest, most populated nation in the continent. Very influential too,
very dictatorial, but they just don't like you to know that. But yeah, it's a beautiful place,
we just have some people who almost make you wish you didn't come from the place.
Chris: Yeah. Well, I know you were on the front lines of some of that dictatorial
aggression, I guess.
DJ Switch: Yes, me and a bunch of very brave Nigerians who, I'm privileged to know a few now
because after the incident, we tried to keep in touch because we didn't know each other when
we met initially. You know how protests are.
Chris: Yeah.
DJ Switch: Again, I applaud each and every one of us because as hurtful and as painful as the
situation was, we were very composed. Nigerians, naturally, are very loud,
but we were very composed, we were very peaceful. I saw something that was really strange to me,
not strange as individuals, but collectively. Because our government, they've always tried
to pit us against each other with our religions or our ethnicities and all that,
but I saw different tribes, northerners and southerners and people from the west and east just
helping each other. I remember this one time, it was a Friday while we're protesting, the Muslims
amongst us wanted to pray and we made this big circle for them and protected them as they were
praying. It was a beautiful... It's the best I've seen Nigerians at during the End SARS protest.
Chris: Wow. Well, it's amazing that a brutal regime can bring out the best in the population.
DJ Switch: The truth is the population is just...
I don't know how many Nigerians you know. Well, you know me now.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
DJ Switch: We're very lively people. We're happy people,
but you just don't get to see that because we are under the thumb of a government that just... It's
almost like they wake up in the morning and they gauge our happiness. If we're too happy today,
you know what I mean? It's like, "Oh, no, do something to them."
Chris: So it's like Twitter.
DJ Switch: Yeah. Ban Twitter for instance.
Chris: It sounds bad, but I know China has recently just promised to eliminate poverty in
Nigeria. Trade has topped $20 billion, so China must be making Nigeria really a great place.
DJ Switch: Really now?
Chris: Yeah.
DJ Switch: Oh, wow. Okay.
Chris: You haven't heard?
DJ Switch: I know I haven't, but I do know that I think about 200 Chinese companies in Nigeria now,
and the exploitation is at an all-time high, of course. The way I look at China right
and whatever the intent is, I look at it two ways. First, at its core, political,
not really for this altruistic intent of... Nothing like that. It's just political. Just
one way I see it. There about what, 54 countries in Africa. I know about 53 recognizes Beijing.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
DJ Switch: Just on that global stage, that support of those 53 countries sets China
nicely on that global stage, which enhances their strategic game with the United States. If you
talk about the United States and other Western countries that have issues and concerns about
China and it may seem like they never really want them on the same table, so having these allies,
giving them the leverage or reach rather, puts them in that influential position on
international affairs. The other way I look at it, it's just exploitation really at this point.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
DJ Switch: They need raw materials and we have resources. Africa is filled with resources that
we just don't know what to do with. We sell it off cheap and China could give loans or
whatever aid they always claim to give in turn just to take advantage of say, Nigeria,
and then power their own cities or their own productions and stuff like that
while then dumping their inferior products and all that stuff with us.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
DJ Switch: If you were talking about China trying to eliminate poverty, I don't see it. We are now
really at the top, the world's capital of poverty. If you do your research, you'll see that.
Chris: As you mentioned,
these Chinese companies have been accused of racism, sexual abuse. It just goes on.
DJ Switch: Yeah. Not just in Nigeria, even in Ghana and other places.
Chris: All over Africa, and yet it seems like these Chinese companies
never get any repercussions for it. Why is that?
DJ Switch: Take the average policemen or police force in Nigeria
with all the atrocities and crimes they commit. There's just no repercussions as you said, but
do you expect the Chinese to get that if we can't even compose ourselves? Do
you want to tell someone who seems to be giving you money what to do?
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
DJ Switch: Then we're talking about a government that doesn't even pay attention.
The Nigerian government does not pay attention. We've been talking to them for years on just
basic things like electricity and all that, and they just don't care. So if you go work
at a Chinese company and you're being mistreated or you're not getting your dues or you've been
racially just attacked, it's just a story for the blogs on the internet.
Chris: It really is tragic because as you say, Nigeria has so much potential, all of Africa does.
DJ Switch: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: It's not as if these investments deals couldn't happen with the United States or other
Western powers, but because those deals would require some kind of political reform, these
dictators just go with the Chinese communist party that doesn't make any of those kind of claims.
DJ Switch: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Chris: It doesn't make any of those requirements.
DJ Switch: Yeah. You're right. You've pretty much answered that question. Take the United
States for instance, is very big on human rights and like you said, political reform.
These are big issues for places like the US and other Western countries as opposed
to... I'm not saying the US is perfect or anything. Everyone has their issues,
but at least, you're making the effort to keep fighting for democracy and stuff like that.
It's not really China's foremost priority. Then I think, again, to me,
this really boils down to a financial thing again. China has superseded other countries with regards
to how much they give to African countries. If you follow the trend of African leaders
who just enjoyed looting and so on and so forth, they would always take more as opposed to less,
and then without the requirements. They don't want to feel like children being told what to do.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
DJ Switch: So, yeah. Chinese comes in. They have an agenda. They don't really... They give
you this impression that you know what? We're not going to tell you what to do unlike say,
other countries. We're giving you... We just want to help you be independent.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
DJ Switch: Then whoever believes that, what can I say?
Chris: It empowers the dictators.
DJ Switch: It empowers the dictators. They have support now as opposed to where they used to get
it from say, again, the UK, the US, World Bank. If it's slow and the Chinese are coming in,
what are we talking about? And then they're not giving you any restrictions.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So really,
help us understand the scope of China's activities in Nigeria.
DJ Switch: I do know that we have a very strong trade relationship with them, which is supposed to
be beneficial to both parties, but it seems like it's more beneficial to the Chinese, just from
where I'm sitting. I'm not an expert. Also, the infrastructure commitments China has made to say,
Nigeria, for instance, like the railway that they want to build and other infrastructure related
companies that they are setting up in the country. We can't particularly see progress per se. A lot
of the stuff that is happening is happening in the north. Now, I have no problems with anybody.
I do not support the division of Nigeria, which is a trending topic now, but you can understand
secessionists who want Nigeria to be divided because it doesn't seem fair what's going on.
DJ Switch: The government is pouring a lot of the resources to the north.
But if it was even just the north, okay, but it's outside the country. President Muhammadu Buhari,
he is trying to develop the Naija. I'm trying to understand that. We've not finished developing
ourselves. Then doing some crazy stuff like building a naval base in the desert, it doesn't
make... It's called a naval base. You're going to think of how the hell about Lagos? You know what
I mean? We've got a beach and stuff like that. A lot of those resources are going that way,
just make them happy, then they take what they want at very, very low prices.
To me, it's a lose-win situation. We're losing, they're winning, but as long as the people who
are sharing whatever money they're sharing are happy, the rest of us can go to hell.
Chris: Well, I know some people have compared what China is doing in Africa,
they've compared it to white colonialism. Do you think there's any truth to that?
DJ Switch: Yeah, I can see why, but it's just done in this... There's a cloak over it. It's not
ships and whips and all that stuff, the typical picture you see when you think about colonization.
It's just strategic in... I would call it neo-colonization, just
trying to use the things that they are supposedly offering us to keep us indebted and control
whatever African countries or sites they've got their hold on, and that put it that way.
Chris: A different type of chains.
DJ Switch: Yeah.
Chris: So how do people in Nigeria feel about China?
DJ Switch: I'm going to answer this question as bluntly as possible.
Chris: Okay.
DJ Switch: I don't have statistics,
but I would dare to shoot for the stars and say about 70% of the population,
they don't even have this conversation. It's not even a conversation. You know what I mean?
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
DJ Switch: Another small percentage, people who are maybe in government will have these types of
conversations because they're directly involved with these types of topics or relations. Then
maybe the other group are in media, so someone like you who's reporting on these issues and
stuff like that. Because I don't know if you know, about 70% of the Nigerian population,
they're under 30 years old. So even though the nation isn't an old nation, sorry, a young nation,
the population is predominantly young. You're looking at people who are more concerned with
human rights abuse that is happening directly right there. It's happening to me.
Chris: Yeah.
DJ Switch: So thinking and talking about China, it doesn't come to a lot of young
people's minds. Then we, for the longest time, have been buying Chinese products,
their electronics they're bringing and all of that stuff. You've got a lot of shops
on the streets. You see shops and they're using all those Chinese products and all that stuff.
They don't think about it. Our government doesn't even want to invest in... We've got talent.
There's a young boy. I find [inaudible 00:13:00] as a young boy who went viral recently created a
drone. I'm talking about a guy from... He's not even from a well-to-do, went to the biggest,
best school or anything. It's just a guy from some village. It's just one of those geniuses.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
DJ Switch: His story came out. The government just didn't care. People were trying to get
the attention of this like, "Look at this guy." Then another country...
I might not have this particular name or fact right, so please fact check. I don't know if it's
Poland, but one of these countries out of Finland, I think, but one of these countries invited this
boy. They've given him everything. This is how we waste talent. As long as we know we
import... We import everything down to tooth picks. It's not like we don't have trees.
Call a bunch of guys. We'll chop up some toothpicks. But we don't do that.
Most people don't talk about these things. Most people just buy what they... Oh,
that's a toothpick, they buy. Oh, I like that DVD, they buy. They don't really think, oh wait, where
did this come from? Why aren't we making this? Most people don't really talk about China,
China's influence. In fact, I've heard more Ghanaian have that conversation than Nigerians.
Chris: Really?
DJ Switch: Yeah.
Chris: Why do you think that is?
DJ Switch: Well, for starters, and this is no... I love Ghana. It's a beautiful place,
but for starters, I give you stats about the population difference or rather the age,
how young the majority of Nigerian population is,
number one. Number two, there's more of a reading culture in Ghana than there is in Nigeria.
Not a lot of young people read and it's a problem. I wish maybe there's something, some
campaign that can happen. I've met more people. There's a reading culture in Ghana, so most
people tend to read and just expand and broaden and learn and find out things that bother them.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
DJ Switch: But I don't know. When I think about it, it breaks my heart because
we’re talented. We've got what it takes,
but we are more interested in what other people have to offer. Of course,
you know China. The country's a producing machine. There's something is always coming out of China.
Chris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
DJ Switch: As long as there's, "Oh,
what we need. Okay, there it is," nobody's really talking about it.
Chris: Yeah. I can see that being a real challenge.
When you're talking about the SARS shooting you, that's very apparent. That's the problem.
DJ Switch: Yeah.
Chris: When all you see of China is like, oh, these are the products, the goods.
DJ Switch: Yeah. You see the products, you don't even... In fact, again, I dare say, most people
buy the products don't even think about where it came from. They just buy it. Then it depends on
where you go. If you've got a lot of money and you're not just buying off the road and you go
to this big, fancy malls, and then you test it out. I like it, great screen or whatever.
Then you just buy it. Nobody's standing there and going like, "Is this China?" You know what I mean?
Chris: Yeah. What is the real cost?
DJ Switch: What is the real, yeah. Who made this?
Chris: Yeah.
DJ Switch: Nobody, I think.
Chris: Well, thank you so much for joining us and sharing about Nigeria.
DJ Switch: Thank you.
Chris: One last thing I have to ask since you are a DJ, who's your favorite musical influence?
DJ Switch: Wow.
Chris: Give us something probably most of the audience has never even heard of.
DJ Switch: Can I name a few because there're just great people out.
Chris: Go for it.
DJ Switch: All right. We've got Wizkid, who I love terribly, Tems, Davido, Burna Boy. Then I
have to go back and talk about Fela Anikulapo Kuti, Bob Marley, Tracy Chapman, Erykah Badu.
It's crazy. My style of music is a bit urban, but somber sometimes. I do love Sade, Tracy Chapman.
Chris: Where can anyone watching learn more about you or contribute something to Nigeria?
DJ Switch: Yeah. Look, guys, just
Google. Just Google Nigeria. You can follow me on Instagram. It's @djswitch_,
but just Google if you are interested. I hope you are. You can share because we do need
the international community to take a lot of these issues seriously and stop enabling.
I'm saying enabling because I know there are lots of lobbyists just selling stories of
what's not happening in Nigeria and pretending it's happening. Then maybe some people might
believe that everything is well, all is well in Nigeria, for instance, but young people are dying
every day. Police people are killing young people for nothing. For wearing ripped jeans, you could
be killed. You have an iPhone, you can be killed. You know what I mean? Help us share the story and
I hope countries, international communities, World Bank could just think twice before just
giving away money to a country that are terrorist sympathizers and have no regard for human rights.
Chris: Thank you again for joining us.
DJ Switch: Thank you for having me.
And thank you for watching. If you’d like to support the work
we do here on China Uncensored, visit ChinaUncensored.tv/support.
Once again I’m Chris Chappell, see you next time.