IT WAS GOING TO GO AWAY.
>> YEAH, THE RESPONSE COMPLETELY
BOTCHED.
JOINING US NOW PRESIDENT OF THE
COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS AND
AUTHOR OF THE BOOK "THE WORLD: A
BRIEF INTRODUCTION" RICHARD
HAASS
HAASS, CHAIRMAN OF THE RENEW
DEMOCRACY INITIATIVE, GARRY
KASPAROV, AND FORMER ACTING U.S.
SOLICITOR GENERAL NOW AN MSNBC
LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR, NEAL KATYAL.
>> SO GARY, IT IS WITH GREAT
REGRET THAT I FEEL THE NEED TO
GO TO YOU FIRST BECAUSE YOU WERE
SO FAMILIAR WITH HOW
TOTALITARIAN LEADERS WANT TO BE
AUTOCRATS BEHAVED ACROSS EASTERN
EUROPE, AND BEHAVED ACROSS
EASTERN EUROPE AND THE SOVIET
UNION.
SO WHERE ARE WE AS A COUNTRY
TODAY?
>> I’VE BEEN SAYING FOR FOUR
YEARS THAT IT WAS DONALD TRUMP
WHO CAN EXPECT CRISIS EVERY DAY,
AND MOST PEOPLE KEPT SAYING, NO,
IT CAN’T HAPPEN HERE.
I KEPT SAYING IT COULD.
YES, AMERICA’S SPECIAL, BUT IT
HAS TAKEN ITS DEMOCRACY FOR
GRANTED FOR TOO LONG, AND
IT’S -- BEFORE THE ELECTIONS, I
AGAIN, WARNED THAT WE HAD TO
PREPARE FOR THE UNIMAGINABLE,
AND SPEAKING ABOUT FOREIGN
LEADERS, YOU HAVE TO HEAR THE
RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA THESE DAYS.
THEY ARE CELEBRATING THE
AMERICAN POLITICAL CRISIS.
VLADIMIR PUTIN IS SMILING,
SMILING PROUDLY, AND RUSSIAN
PROPAGANDA IS NOT GOING TO STOP
POINTING OUT IN AMERICAN AND
TELLING RUSSIAN CITIZENS THAT
DEMOCRACY IS CORRUPTION AND
JOKE.
SO TRUMP WAS AN AGENT OF CHAOS
AS PUTIN EXPECTED.
>> YEAH, PUTIN’S GETTING MORE
THAN HE EVER COULD HAVE DREAMED
OF FROM THIS PRESIDENT AS HE
LOOKED AT THE IMAGES AT THE
CAPITOL.
NEAL KATYAL YOU WROTE A PIECE
SAYING IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS
HOW OLD START BASED ON THAT
PHONE CALL ALONE.
SO I IMAGINE YOU ONLY THINK THAT
MORE INTENSELY THAT HE SHOULD BE
IMPEACHED AT THIS POINT, AND
WE’RE HEARING JUST THIS MORNING
THAT THERE WILL BE A VOTE NEXT
WEEK ON IMPEACHMENT.
SO YOU PUT THAT TOGETHER WITH
CALLS FOR THE INVOCATION OF THE
25th AMENDMENT, WHAT DO YOU SEE
HAPPENING OVER THE NEXT 12 DAYS?
>> I THINK THERE’S HUGE
VELOCITY.
YOU’RE RIGHT, ON MONDAY I WROTE
A "NEW YORK TIMES" PIECE CALLING
FOR A SECOND IMPEACHMENT, AND I
SAID IT WAS GOING TO TAKE MORE
THAN THE TWO WEEKS BACK THEN TO
GET THE PROCESS DONE, BUT YOU
CAN DISQUALIFY A FUTURE
PRESIDENT THROUGH THE
IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDING BUT THE
VELOCITY JUST IN THE LAST 48
HOURS IS INCREDIBLE ON THIS.
THE ASSISTANT SPEAKER OF THE
HOUSE JUST THIS MORNING
ANNOUNCING THERE WILL BE THAT
VOTE, SENATOR BEN SASSE JUST A
FEW MINUTES AGO ON CBS SAID HE
WOULD DEFINITELY CONSIDER
IMPEACHING THE PRESIDENT, AND I
THINK THAT THERE ARE THREE
REASONS WHY WE SEE THIS
IMMEDIATE CALL AND THE URGENCY.
ONE IS BECAUSE WE NEED TO STOP
THIS PRESIDENT FROM EXERCISING
THE PRESIDENTIAL POWERS OVER THE
NEXT 13 DAYS AND HE HAS HIS
FINGER ON THE NUCLEAR CODES AND
BUTTONS.
THIS IS A GUY WHO COULD PARDON
AS PRESIDENT JOHNSON DID AFTER
THE CIVIL WAR ALL THE ENEMIES OF
THE UNITED STATES WHO TRIED TO,
YOU KNOW, STORM THE CAPITOL ON
WEDNESDAY.
ALSO, SECONDLY, YOU WANT TO SET
A PRECEDENT FOR THE FUTURE.
I MEAN, WHEN IMPEACHMENT FAILED
THE LAST TIME AROUND, I THINK IT
SET SENT A VERY DANGEROUS SIGNAL
THAT IT WAS OKAY FOR PRESIDENTS
TO CHEAT AND LIE TO TRY AND WIN
AN ELECTION.
YOU KNOW, I SAID IN A BOOK BACK
THEN, YOU KNOW, IF HE GETS AWAY
WITH IT, HE’S GOING TO DO MORE
AND WORSE.
THAT DOESN’T MAKE NE KNOWS TRA
DA MOUSE, I’M A NORMAL AVERAGE
PERSON WHO COULD SEE THOSE
CONSEQUENCES.
AND LASTLY AND MOST
IMPORTANTLY, I THINK WE NEED TO
GET PEOPLE ON THE RECORD,
EVERYONE IN THE HOUSE, EVERYONE
IN THE SENATE, EVERY MEMBER OF
THE CABINET, DO THEY STAND WITH
THIS NONSENSE?
THEY GOT TO TAKE A SIDE NOW.
THEY CAN’T JUST HIDE IN THE
SHADOWS
SHADOWS.
SO AN IMPEACHMENT VOTE FLUSHES
ALL OF THOSE VOTES OUT INTO THE
OPEN.
>> YEAH.
YES.
YES, YES.
>> IT’S A SIMPLE, SIMPLE
QUESTION.
DO YOU SUPPORT FASCISM OR DO YOU
SUPPORT FREEDOM?
THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO
DESCRIBE WHAT DONALD TRUMP DID
THE OTHER DAY BY TRYING TO USE
VIOLENCE, TRYING TO INSPIRE
VIOLENCE, TRYING TO INSPIRE AN
INSURRECTION AGAINST THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES
OF AMERICA TO STOP A DEMOCRATIC
PROCESS, A CONSTITUTIONALLY
ORDAINED PROCESS FOR HIS OWN
POLITICAL GOALS.
THAT’S FASCISM, SO YES, THEY
NEED TO BE ON RECORD.
DO THEY SUPPORT FASCISM, OR DO
THEY SUPPORT FREEDOM.
RICHARD HAASS, IT’S YOUR JOB TO
TALK TO DIPLOMATS ACROSS THE
WORLD AND WORLD LEADERS EVERY
DAY.
WHAT ARE YOU HEARING IN YOUR
DAILY CONVERSATIONS, AND ARE
THESE WORLD LEADERS HOPEFUL THAT
THE UNITED STATES IS GOING TO
TURN A PAGE IN TWO WEEKS?
>> OUR ALLIES IN EUROPE, IN
PARTICULAR SOME EXTENT IN ASIA
ARE HOPEFUL THAT WE WILL TURN A
PAGE.
THEY LOOK FORWARD TO THE NEXT
PRESIDENT, BUT JOE, WE SHOULDN’T
KID OURSELVES.
THE DAMAGE WE HAVE DONE TO OUR
REPUTATION, TO OUR STANDING, TO
THE FEELING AMONG ALLIES THAT WE
CAN BE RELIED ON, THEY PLACED
THEIR SECURITY IN OUR HANDS.
WE HAVE DONE LASTING DAMAGE TO
OUR POSITION IN THE WORLD.
AS GARY POINTED OUT,
AUTHORITARIANS TODAY IN CHINA
ARE CELEBRATING.
THEY’RE BASICALLY RUNNING TV
THINGS SAYING THIS PROVES THE
ADVANTAGES OF OUR SYSTEM.
YOU CAN THANK US.
DEMOCRACY IS A DANGEROUS THING,
THE SAME WAY THIS ARAB LEADERS
DID AFTER THE ARAB SPRING.
JUST THINK THE NEXT TIME WE TRY
TO ADVOCATE FOR DEMOCRACY, BUT
WHAT ABOUT THE NEXT TIME WE SAY
YOU CAN’T HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS
TO SOME COUNTRY BECAUSE YOU
DON’T HAVE THE POLITICAL
STABILITY AND MATURITY TO HANDLE
THEM IS THIS HOW’S THAT GOING TO
LOOK?
HOW’S THAT GOING TO PLAY?
I THINK ALL OF THIS COMES
TOGETHER.
THIS IS GOING TO BE A LONG-TERM
BALL AND CHAIN ON OUR ABILITY TO
BE EFFECTIVE IN THE WORLD.
PLUS, WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO PUT
EVEN MORE OF OUR INWARD.
WE’VE ALREADY GOT A DEAL WITH
COVID.
YOU’VE GOT TO DO THE
INVESTIGATIONS ABOUT THE
INCOMPETENCE OR WORSE AT THE
CAPITOL THE OTHER DAY.
WE’VE GOT TO DEAL WITH RACIAL
AND POLITICAL DIVISION COME.