>>> WELCOME BACK TO "VELSHI & RUHLE."
RUHLE." WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SINGING ABOUT
MICHAEL COHEN?
MICHAEL COHEN? THAT IS THE QUESTION YOU’VE GOT
TO IMAGINE THE WHITE HOUSE IS
ASKING THIS MORNING AFTER
REPORTS THAT THE PRESIDENT’S
FORMER LAWYER HAS SPENT HOURS
TALKING TO SPECIAL COUNSEL
PROSECUTORS IN THE RUSSIA
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. ROBERT MUELLER’S TIGHT-LIPPED
TEAM REMAINS MUM.
ACCORDING TO REPORTS COHEN WAS
QUESTIONED ABOUT TRUMP’S
BUSINESS DEALINGS AND POSSIBLE
CAMPAIGN TIES WITH, YOU GUESSED
IT, RUSSIA.
IT, RUSSIA. HE ALSO WAS REPORTEDLY ASKED IF
TRUMP FLOATED THE IDEA OF A
PARDON TO HIS FORM CONFIDANT.
JOINING ME FORMER SPECIAL
PROSECUTOR JOE WEINBANKS AND ELI
HONEY.
HONEY. THE PRESIDENT’S PERSONAL
ATTORNEY -- MICHAEL COHEN HAS A
HISTORY OF LYING.
HE DOES, SO DOES THE PRESIDENT,
SO DOES RUDY GIULIANI.
IF WHAT HE’S TELLING MUELLER
CORROBORATES WHAT MUELLER
ALREADY HAS, THAT’S A TOUGH
TRIANGLE.
TRIANGLE. >> IT ISN’T.
I THINK EVEN IF HE’S JUST
CORROBORATING, THE DOCUMENTS
THAT HAVE BEEN SIZE R SEIZEEIZED
OFFICE AND HIS HOME, THAT WOULD
BE IMPORTANT.
BE IMPORTANT. A LOT OF TIMES WHEN YOU EVEN
HAVE TAPES OF CONVERSATIONS
WHICH WE KNOW HE HAD AND YOU
HAVE E-MAILS, THEY AREN’T AS
CLEAR AS YOU MIGHT THING THEY
WOULD BE, AND THEY NEED SOME
TESTIMONY TO EXPLAIN WHAT THEY
MEAN.
MEAN. HE CAN BE VERY VALUABLE.
WE KNOW THAT HE WAS IN RUSSIA
FOR THE TRUMP TOWER MOSCOW.
WE KNOW THAT HE HAS BEEN
INVOLVED IN PAYING OFF WOMEN.
WE KNOW THAT HE KNOWS A LOT
ABOUT THE BUSINESS OF DONALD
TRUMP IN NEW YORK, AND SO THERE
ARE A LOT OF POTENTIAL AVENUES
OF CRIMINAL CONDUCT THAT MIGHT
BE REVEALED BY HIM AND THAT HE,
YES, IS NOT THE MOST TRUSTWORTHY
PERSON, BUT AS YOU SAID, NEITHER
IS THE PRESIDENT, AND IT DEPENDS
ON WHERE THE CIRCUMSTANTIAL
EVIDENCE AND CORROBORATION COMES
FROM.
FROM. I WOULD TRUST HIM IF HIS
DOCUMENTS SUPPORT HIM.
AND HE COULD BE A VERY
POWERFUL --
POWERFUL -- >> REMEMBER, DIDN’T HAPPEN,
DIDN’T HAPPEN, NO COLLUSION,
COLLUSION’S NOT A CRIME.
NBC’S CYNTHIA McFADDEN SPOKE
EXCLUSIVELY WITH THE GUY WHO SET
UP THAT INFAMOUS TRUMP TOWER.
IT WAS BETWEEN CAMPAIGN AIDES
AND RUSSIANS.
AND RUSSIANS. ROB GOLDSTONE IS HIS NAME, AND I
WANT TO SHARE A BIT OF THAT
INTERVIEW.
INTERVIEW. >> I’VE ALWAYS LOOKED AT IT AS A
BAIT-AND-SWITCH.
BAIT-AND-SWITCH. >> AND POSSIBLY A CRIME.
>> POSSIBLY A CRIME.
>> BUT IT WAS A DIRTY OFFER.
>> YES.
>> YES. >> IT WAS A DIRTY OFFER THAT
THEY ACCEPTED.
THEY ACCEPTED. >> YES, THAT IS TRUE.
>>.
>>. >> WHAT’S YOUR TAKE HERE?
>> YEAH, SO WHETHER OR NOT
ANYTHING CAME OUT OF THAT TRUMP
TOWER MEETING, WE’VE HEARD THE
DEFENSE OF WE THE TRUMP PEOPLE
NEVER REALLY GOT ANY DIRT OUT OF
THIS, IT DOESN’T REALLY MATTER
LEGALLY SPEAKING BECAUSE YOU
STILL HAVE A CRIME OF
CONSPIRACY.
CONSPIRACY. WHEN THAT OFFER COMES IN BY
E-MAIL --
E-MAIL -- >> WHAT IF IT WAS A
BAIT-AND-SWITCH.
BAIT-AND-SWITCH. THEY CAN SAY I DIDN’T KNOW WHAT
IT WAS ABOUT, I THOUGHT IT WAS
ABOUT THE ORPHANS.
>> STILL A CONSPIRACY.
WE HAVE THIS OFFER ON THE TABLE
FROM THE RUSSIANS, AND IT LOOKS
LIKE THEY DID FROM THE E-MAILS,
TRUMP JUNIOR’S FAMOUS I LOVE IT
IF IT IS WHAT YOU SAY IT IS, AS
LONG AS THEY INTERNALLY AGREE
WITH EACH OTHER, IT’S STILL A
CONSPIRACY TO VIOLATE THAT LAW
THAT PROHIBITS TAKING FOREIGN
ELECTION AID.
ELECTION AID. EVEN IF IT WAS A
BAIT-AND-SWITCH.
BAIT-AND-SWITCH. >> THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN
UNCHARACTERISTICALLY QUIET ABOUT
THIS MICHAEL COHEN NEWS, DOES
THAT SURPRISE YOU?
IT’S GOT TO BE A GOOD IDEA, BUT
IT’S VERY OUT OF CHARACTER.
>> IT IS SO OUT OF CHARACTER
THAT OF COURSE IT’S SURPRISING.
IT WOULD MAYBE INDICATE THAT HE
HAS SOME NEW LAWYER WHO’S GIVING
HIM ADVICE AND THAT HE’S
ACTUALLY FOLLOWING IT.
HE’S BEEN QUIET ABOUT THE
KAVANAUGH CONTROVERSY.
KAVANAUGH CONTROVERSY. HE’S BEEN QUIET ABOUT MICHAEL
COHEN.
COHEN. IT’S QUITE A SURPRISE.
IT’S A GOOD THING THAT HE IS
DOING THAT BECAUSE HIS PAST
HISTORY HAS ONLY GOTTEN HIM IN
MUCH MORE TROUBLE THAN HE WAS IN
BEFORE HE SAID ANYTHING, SO IF
HE KEEPS QUIET, IT’S GOOD.
MAYBE NOT FOR THE NEWS, BUT IT’S
A GOOD THING FOR HIS LEGAL CASE.
>> LET’S GO BACK IN TIME A
MOMENT.
MOMENT. I REMEMBER EARLY ON IN THE
RUSSIA INVESTIGATION PRESIDENT
TRUMP WAS FURIOUS WHEN THERE WAS
THIS NOTION THAT ROBERT MUELLER
COULD START INVESTIGATING HIS
PERSONAL FINANCES.
PERSONAL FINANCES. HE SAID THAT WAS HIS RED LINE.
THAT’S COME ASKND GONE.
I REMEMBER SPEAKING TO A BIG
TRUMP SUPPORTER HERE IN NEW YORK
AFTER HE WON WHO SAID TO ME
TRUMP BETTER NOT GO AFTER THE
INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES.
INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES. HE’S RUN A PRETTY SHAKY BUSINESS
ALL THESE YEARS.
HE DOESN’T WANT THEM TO LOOK
INTO THAT.
INTO THAT. NOW THAT WE KNOW COHEN IS
COOPERATING, HE’S COOPERATING
WITH NEW YORK STATE AUTHORITIES.
THEY’VE GOT AN ONGOING
INVESTIGATION INTO THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION MEANING THE
COMPANY, INTO THE TRUMP
FOUNDATION.
FOUNDATION. THAT WOULD DIRECTLY KBOOKTIMPACT
IVANKA, DON JUNIOR, ERIC.
HOW SIGNIFICANT WOULD THAT BE?
>> THAT COULD BE HUGE.
THERE’S A COUPLE DIFFERENT
SCOPES HERE.
SCOPES HERE. THERE’S THE SCOPE THAT MUELLER
WAS GIVEN BY THE DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE, WHICH IS FAIRLY NARROW.
IT’S THE POTENTIAL RUSSIA
INVESTIGATION AND ANYTHING
RELATED, BUT THE NEW YORK A.G.
AND THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW
YORK IS NOT LIMITED TO THAT.
>> AND THAT’S TRUMP’S
EVERYTHING.
EVERYTHING. TRUMP HAS BEEN A POLITICIAN FOR,
WHAT, THREE YEARS?
HIS BUSINESS EMPIRE, HIS NAME,
THAT’S HIS WORLD.
>> YEAH, AND THERE’S NOTHING TO
PREVENT EITHER OF THOSE OFFICES
FROM CHARGING HIM, AND I THINK
IF THEY DO END UP DEVELOPING
CHARGES FINANCIAL FRAUD, TAX
FRAUD ON THE TRUMP ORG, ON HIS
CHILDREN, ON JARED KUSHNER, I
THINK YOU’RE GOING TO SEE PRETTY
STRONG REACTIONS BUT THERE’S NOT
A LOT HE CAN DO IN THAT CASE.
>> THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH.