>>> ACCORDING TO "THE WASHINGTON POST" REPORTING TONIGHT, RUDY
GIULIANI SAID HE WAS OPERATING
IN HIS PERSONAL CAPACITY AS
TRUMP’S LAWYER, ALTHOUGH HE SAID
THE STATE DEPARTMENT HELPED PUT
HIM IN TOUCH WITHIER MACK YERK
IS AN AID TO PRESIDENT
ZELENSKIY.
ZELENSKIY. GIULIANI SAID HIS MEETINGS WITH
YERMAK
YERMAK YERMAK.
YERMAK. THE STATE DEPARTMENT HAD NO
IMMEDIATE COMMENT.
IMMEDIATE COMMENT. THAT RAISES THE QUESTION WHAT
DID SECRETARY OF STATE KNOW
ABOUT RUDY GIULIANI’S UKRAINIAN
NEGOTIATIONS AND WHEN DID HE
KNOW IT.
KNOW IT. JOINING US IS AMBASSADOR WENDY
SHERMAN, FORMER UNDERSECRETARY
OF STATE DURING THE OBAMA
ADMINISTRATION.
ADMINISTRATION. ALSO AN MSNBC GLOBAL AFFAIRS
CONTRIBUTOR.
CONTRIBUTOR. AMBASSADOR SHERMAN, WHAT SHOULD
THE SECRETARY OF STATE HAVE
KNOWN AND DONE ABOUT WHAT RUDY
GIULIANI WAS UP TO?
>> IF RUDY GIULIANI WAS GOING TO
UKRAINE AND MEETING IN OTHER
COUNTRIES WITH AIDES TO THE HEAD
OF UKRAINE, THE STATE
DEPARTMENT -- IS THE PRESIDENT’S
POLITICAL LAWYER, THE STATE
DEPARTMENT REALLY SHOULD HAVE
HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
TO PUT SENIOR FOREIGN SERVICE
OFFICERS, TO PUT AMBASSADORS, TO
PUT WORKING PEOPLE, CIVIL
SERVANTS IN THE CROSS HAIRS OF A
POLITICAL CONTROVERSY IS
COMPLETELY INAPPROPRIATE.
COMPLETELY INAPPROPRIATE. WHAT WE’RE SEEING HERE IS
GIULIANI ACTING AS THE
PRESIDENT’S SETUP GUY.
HIS INTERVIEW LAST NIGHT ON A
ANOTHER NETWORK WAS REALLY TO
GET THE STORY OUT THERE THAT
THIS WAS ALL ABOUT GOING AFTER
INVESTIGATING JOE BIDEN, WHEN,
IN FACT, GLENN KESSLER OF "THE
WASHINGTON POST" HAS LONG SAID
THAT THE FACTS DO NOT SUPPORT
THAT THERE’S ANY WRONGDOING HERE
WHATSOEVER, BEEN CLEARED BY THE
UKRAINIANS REGARDING VICE
PRESIDENT BIDEN’S SON.
THERE’S NO THERE THERE.
AND YET TO KEEP TRUMP’S GROUP
SUPPORTING HIM AND TRYING TO
ENSURE HIS RE-ELECTION IN PART
SO HE CAN ENSURE THAT HE WILL
NOT BE INDICTED, HE WILL NOT BE
TAKEN TO COURT, RUDY GIULIANI --
IT’S ALMOST LIKE A MOB FAMILY,
LAWRENCE, WHERE YOU’VE GOT THE
GUY WHO GOES IN AND SAYS NOW YOU
REALLY DON’T WANT THE GODFATHER,
THE BIG GUNS TO COME IN HERE.
YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU DO THE
RIGHT THING HERE.
SO THERE DOESN’T HAVE TO BE EVEN
AN EXPLICIT COMMENT.
IT CAN BE UNDERSTOOD AS YOUR
EARLIER GUEST SAID, THERE MAY
NEVER HAS BEEN AN EXPLICIT QUID
PRO QUO HERE, BUT IT’S ALL
UNDERSTOOD.
UNDERSTOOD. WE KNOW HOW TO HAVE SUCH
CONVERSATIONS, BUT THEY DON’T
BELONG IN THE PURVIEW OF THE
STATE DEPARTMENT AND GIULIANI IS
REALLY ALONG WITH THE PRESIDENT
DEBASING THEMSELVES WHEN IT
COMES TO PROTECTING OUR NATIONAL
SECURITY.
SECURITY. >> DOES RUDY GIULIANI HAVE
CRIMINAL LIABILITY HERE IN WHAT
HE IS JUST OUTLINED FOR
REPORTERS ALREADY THAT HE’S
DEALING WITH UKRAINE ON BEHALF
OF DONALD TRUMP ON A PERSONAL
BASIS, TRYING TO GET UKRAINE TO
BASICALLY CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR JOE
BIDEN’S FAMILY?
BIDEN’S FAMILY? >> I’M NOT A LAWYER, SO I DON’T
KNOW WHETHER THERE’S CRIMINAL
LIABILITY HERE, BUT IT’S
CERTAINLY INAPPROPRIATE, AND IT
IS CERTAINLY NOT ANYTHING THAT I
ONE OF ALLOWED ANYONE TO BE
INVOLVED WITH.
INVOLVED WITH. WHAT WE SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON
HERE IS THAT WE PROTECT WHISTLE
BLOWERS BECAUSE THEY’RE A
CRITICAL PART OF OUR SYSTEM OF
CHECKS AND BALANCES, THAT WE
PROTECT OUR NATIONAL SECURITY,
AND THIS APPEARS TO BE AN ABUSE
OF POWER BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES, BY AN ATTORNEY
GENERAL WHO BELIEVES IN THE
EXPANSION OF PRESIDENTIAL
POWERS, BY A FORMER MAYOR WHO
WAS ONCE THOUGHT OF AS AMERICA’S
MAYOR WHO IS NOW JUST I GUESS
HAVING A BALL DOING VERY SCREWY
KINDS OF THINGS ON BEHALF OF THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. AND WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO
SERVES HIS OWN PERSONAL
INTERESTS EVERY DAY AND NOT THE
INTERESTS OF OUR COUNTRY.
WE’RE AT A REALLY TOUGH PLACE.
LAWRENCE, WHEN I WAS DISCUSSING
THIS WITH MY HUSBAND THIS
EVENING, HE SAID TO ME SOMETHING
THAT WAS VERY TRUE.
THE PRESIDENT EXPECTS THAT WE
WILL ALL BE EXHAUSTED BY ALL OF
THIS AND WE WILL TURN AWAY.
BUT FOR THE SAKE OF OUR
DEMOCRACY, I SAY WE CANNOT TURN
AWAY.
AWAY. WE HAVE TO STAY WITH THIS STORY.
IT’S REALLY ABOUT THE SURVIVAL
OF OUR NATIONAL SECURITY AND THE
SURVIVAL OF THE VALUES OF OUR
COUNTRY AND OUR CONSTITUTION.
>>> WE’RE BACK WITH FORMER UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, WENDY
SHERMAN.
SHERMAN. I WANT TO READ YOU SOME OF NANCY
PELOSI’S STATEMENT TODAY.
SHE ISSUED A STATEMENT SAYING
THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW
THE FACTS, EXPLORE EVERY
POSSIBLE OPTION, ENSURE THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE TLGT TRUTH.
AND SHE SAID WE MUST BE SURE
THAT THE PRESIDENT AND HIS
ADMINISTRATION ARE CONDUCTING
OUR NATIONAL SECURITY AND
FOREIGN POLICY IN THE BEST
INTEREST OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE,
NOT THE PRESIDENT’S PERSONAL
INTEREST.
INTEREST. AND WHEN YOU SEE THOSE WORDS
TODAY, THEY SEEM TO HAVE BEEN
WRITTEN FOR ANOTHER ERA, THE
TRUMP ERA, THE IDEA OF THE TRUMP
PRESIDENCY SERVING ANYTHING
OTHER THAN THE PRESIDENT’S
PERSONAL INTEREST SEEMS LIKE
JUST A KIND OF ACCIDENTAL
BY-PRODUCT OF WHAT THE
PRESIDENCY CAN FEEL TO SOME
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. THE WHISTLEBLOWER STATUTE, LOOKS
LIKE ONE OF THOSE THINGS WRITTEN
BY HONORABLE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS
WHO PRESUMED THAT EVERYONE
DEALING WITH THAT STATUTE OR
LIVING UNDER THAT STATUTE WOULD
ALSO BE BEHAVING IN AN HONORABLE
WAY.
WAY. IF WE WERE TRYING TO WRITE THAT
STATUTE FOR A CRIMINAL
ADMINISTRATION OR ONE THAT WILL
VIOLATE LAWS WILLFULLY, YOU
WOULD HAVE TO WRITE A VERY
DIFFERENT STATUTE.
DIFFERENT STATUTE. IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYTHING THAT
SURROUNDS THIS ISSUE, IT TURNS
OUT TO BE WEAKER THAN WE THOUGHT
IT WAS BECAUSE THE TRUMP
APPROACH TO THIS HAS NO CONCERN
WHATSOEVER, NO CONCERN AT ALL
FOR HOW THE MANIPULATION OF
THESE PROCESSES LOOKS PUBLICLY.
>> INDEED.
>> INDEED. THE PRESIDENT HAS NO RESPECT FOR
THE INSTITUTIONS OF OUR
GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT. HE WORKS EVERY DAY IN SO MANY
WAYS TO UNDERMINE THOSE
INSTITUTIONS, EVERYTHING FROM
MAKING SURE EVERYBODY IS AN
ACTING THIS OR ACTING THAT, SO
THERE ISN’T SUFFICIENT OVERSIGHT
FROM THE CONGRESS SO HE KEEPS
THEM ALL ON THEIR TOES HAVING TO
PLEASE THE KING IN MANY WAYS.
TO THE USE OF THE MILITARY OF
HIS -- ONE OF HIS RESORTS IN
EUROPE BECAUSE THE MILITARY IS
NOT A FOOL.
THEY KNOW THEY WANT TO STAY IN
GOOD STEAD WITH THE PRESIDENT.
THERE IS NO EXPLICIT STATEMENT
BY THE PRESIDENT THAT THE
MILITARY HAS TO GO USE TURNBULL.
HE DOES SAY HE LIKES ACTING
BECAUSE HE KEEPS THEM OFF
BALANCE AND HE GETS TO DECIDE.
SO EVERYTHING HE DOES, STARTING
WITH UNDERMINING THE
INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEES AND THE
INTELLIGENCE INSTITUTIONS OF
SAYING, IN FACT, RUSSIA, NOT
SOME 400-POUND GUY, NOT SOME
OTHER COUNTRY, BUT RUSSIA WAS
BEHIND THE INTERFERENCE OF THE
ELECTION IN 2016 THAT WANTED TO
HELP DONALD TRUMP AT EVERY LEVEL
IN EVERY WAY.
HE HAS SAID I DON’T CARE.
I’M GOING TO TAKE CARE OF
MYSELF.
MYSELF. HE’S VERY GOOD AT BRANDING, VERY
GOOD AT MARKETING, GETTING HIS
RALLY CROWDS TO AGREE WITH HIM
IN THEIR OWN SENSE OF BEING LEFT
OUT AND LEFT BEHIND, THAT HE IS
FOR THEM AND AND THE REAL DANGER
HERE IS WHEN PEOPLE FEEL
UNCERTAINTY, THEY GO FOR LEADERS
WHO TELL THEM I WILL TAKE CARE
OF EVERYTHING, I WILL BE YOUR
KING, I WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU,
AND THAT’S EXACTLY WHY THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WAS
FOUNDED, NOT TO HAVE A KING.