>> Stephen: PLEASE WELCOME OLIVER STONE.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ) ♪ ♪ ♪
HEY!
GOOD SEEING YOU.
COME ON UP.
>> YOUR THEATER'S GOTTEN LARGER SINCE THE LAST TIME.
>> Stephen: ISN'T IT LOVELY?
WE'RE LUCKY TO BE HERE.
NOW, BESIDES BEING A MASTERFUL FILMMAKER, YOU HAVE A
REPUTATION, I THINK WARRANTED FOR ENJOYING TELLING PEOPLE'S
STORIES THAT INVOLVE SECRETS AND CONSPIRACIES.
THIS-- THIS MOVIE, "SNOWDEN" MIGHT BE THE FIRST ONE THAT IS
FACTUALLY VERIFIABLE.
BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT NECESSARILY DENYING WHAT SNOWDEN
SAID HAPPENED.
THEY'RE JUST SAYING HE WAS WRONG TO TELL US.
DOES THAT CHANGE THE STORY FOR YOU, THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY SAY,
"NO, NO, I'M CLEARLY NOT MAKING ANY OF THIS UP?"
( LAUGHTER ) >> STEPHEN, I DON'T KNOW HOW OLD
YOU ARE, BUT I'VE BEEN DOING A LOT OF RESEARCH ALL MY LIFE, AND
ALL MY MOVIES I'VE STOOD BEHIND AND FOUGHT OVER THE DETAILS ON.
>> Stephen: YOU'VE BEEN ATTACKED FAIR LOT LIKE "J.F.K.",
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE VISUALLY ATTACKED YOU IN SAYING THAT,
"YOU'RE NOT A JOURNALIST.
YOU'RE MAKING THIS STUFF UP.
IT'S COMPOSITE CHARACTERS."
>> I'M NOT A JOURNALIST AND I'M NOT A HISTORIAN.
I'M A DAWMIVITY.
AND I TELL THE STORY.
AND SOMETIMES YOU SHAPE THINGS IN TWO HOURS.
IN THE SNOWDEN CASE THERE ARE ABOUT 120, 130 PROGRAMS THE
N.S.A. HAS.
WE ONLY SHOW YOU TWO OR THREE IN THE THE STORY.
WHAT IS VERIFIABLE, YOU'RE CORRECT, IS OUR GOVERNMENT HAS
DEVELOPED AND DEPLOYED THE MOST MASSIVE GLOBAL SURVEILLANCE
SYSTEM EVER SEEN IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND, AND DID SO WITHOUT
DEMOCRATIC CONSENT.
AND IT'S ONE PERSON, ONE PERSON, MR. SNOWDEN, HAS HAD THE COURAGE
TO REVEAL IT OUT OF SINCERITIY, OUT OF LOYALTY IT TO GOVERNMENT,
AND CERTAINLY HIS STRONG CONVICTION THAT IT WAS ILLEGAL
AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
>> Stephen: WHAT HE DID WAS ILLEGAL TO TELL US ABOUT IT.
>> YES, IT WAS.
>> Stephen: A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY HE-- EXCUSE ME, A WHAT?
>> THERE'S A HIGHER LAW HERE.
A HIGHER LAW OF CONSCIENCE -- >> BUT IF EVERYBODY JUST FOLLOWS
THEIR CONSCIENCE, WE HAVE PERHAPS GOOD, ETHICAL PEOPLE,
BUT THEN YOU END UP HAVING AN ARCTIC SYSTEM.
DO YOU THINK HE SHOULD COME BACK AND AT LEAST STAND TRIAL FOR HIS
CRIMES?
>> I THINK HE WOULD, AND-- I KNOW HE WOULD.
I WISH HE COULD, BECAUSE THEY'VE CHARGED HIM WITH THE ESPIONAGE
ACT.
WITH THE ESPIONAGE ACT YOU CANNOT PRESENT A PUBLIC INTEREST
DEFENSE.
YOU CANNOT RAISE WHAT HE DID-- YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT NATIONAL--
QUOTE-- NATIONAL SECURITY BECAUSE THEY CAN ALWAYS SAY THIS
IS A QUESTION OF NATIONAL SECURITY.
THERE IS NO DEFENSE.
THEY WILL SEND HIM TO JAIL FOR AS LONG AS THEY CHOOSE.
THIS IS NOT-- IT IS NOT A FAIR TRIAL.
>> Stephen: DO YOU THINK WE'RE BEING WATCHED ALL THE TIME?
>> WELL, THEY HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO GO BACK.
WE'RE IN A-- IN A-- WE'RE ON A DISK, A SERIES OF DISKS ALL
OVER.
THEY CAN GO BACK -- >> THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY
GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES YESTERDAY SAID PUT A PIECE OF
TAPE OVER THE CAMERA ON YOUR COMPUTER.
>> YEAH.
>> Stephen: THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THE SYSTEM-- THIS IS THE HEAD OF
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> Stephen: DO YOU THINK WE ARE BEING WATCHED ON A DAILY
BASIS, THERE ARE PEOPLE SORT OF PEEPING IN ON THE CAMERAS?
>> THEY'RE RECORDING EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD, AND THEY HAVE A
HUGE STORAGE CAPACITY NOW, AND THEY CAN GO BACK AND LOOK IN THE
DATABASE-- WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS DATA MINING ON A MASS SCALE,
BIGGER THAN GOOGLE OR ANY OF THAT STUFF.
BUT GOOGLE IS PART OF THAT, TOO.
YOU KNOW, GOOGLE COLLABORATED WITH THE GOVERNMENT UNTIL
SNOWDEN'S REVELATIONS.
NOW THEY'VE GONE INTO AN ENCRYPTION, AND ENCRYPTION HAS
RESULTED, MUCH MORE SO, MORE VARIED, AND ALL THESE COMPANIES
HAVE BEEN-- TO KEEP THEIR CUSTOMERS, HAVE PROVIDED
ENCRYPTION, NOT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BUT BECAUSE THEY LOSE
THEIR CUSTOMERS WHO WOULD GO TO OTHER SECURITY SERVICES IF THEY
DIDN'T.
>> Stephen: AS AN ARTIST WHAT IS IT ABOUT SECRETS AND
CONSPIRACIES THAT INTERESTS YOU?
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE EMOTIONALITY BEING THE HEART OF
CREATING A STORY AND MOVING AN AUDIENCE WITH A SYMPATHETIC
RESPONSE TO YOUR HERO.
WHAT THE IS THE EMOTION YOU'RE TRYING TO ELICIT FROM US BY
PEELING BACK A CURTAIN, REAL OR FABRICATED, BY OLIVER STONE.
WHAT DO YOU UPON TO MAKE-- >> WELL, PHILOSOPHICALLY I DON'T
WANT TO GET INTO IT.
>> Stephen: NO, PHILOSOPHICALLY LET'S GET INTO
IT.
>> ALL RIGHT.
EVERY DAY IN OUR CULTURE, WE GET THE SURFACE OF THINGS.
IT'S SANITIZED.
WE LIVE IN A DISNEY WORLD.
AND I, AS A DRAMATIST-- NOT AS A JOURNALIST BUT AS A DRAMATIST,
AM FASCINATED BY GETTING BENEATH THE STORY AND DIGGING.
THESE STORIES REVEAL MORE, PEOPLE IN POWER, MEN IN POWER,
HAVE LIED TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC OVER MANY YEARS OVER MANY THINGS
INCLUDING THE ORIGIN OF LAW -- >> WHAT'S THE ORIGINAL LIE FOR
YOU?
>> THE ORIGINAL LIE-- I COULD START WITH THE BIBLE.
>> Stephen: SURE.
>> THE NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY ITSELF BEGAN IN 1952.
IT WAS THE RESULT OF HIKING THE FEAR.
TRUMAN BROUGHT THIS IN, N.S.A., IN 1947, THE NATIONAL SECURITY
ACT.
BUT IT'S GROWN.
THE ACCELERATION OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY STATE TODAY IS
ENORMOUS.
2001 WAS ANOTHER ACCELERATION POINT WITH THE PATRIOT ACT.
AND THE VIOLATION OF ALL THE ETHICS OF WHAT AMERICA USED TO
BE WHEN I GREW UP.
I THOUGHT IT WAS.
BUT WE CHANGED AFTER WORLD WAR II.
BUT AFTER BUSH, IT GOT OUT OF HAND AND WHEN OBAMA CAME IN, IN
2008, WE THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE REFORM-- MANY OF US DID.
AND I THINK EDWARD SNOWDEN, ONE OF HIS MOTIVATIONS WAS HE WAS
HOPEFUL AND HE WAITED FOR FIVE YEARS-- HE WAS WORKING THAT
WHOLE TIME IN INTELLIGENCE ROUNDTABLE COMMUNITY-- AND HE
SAW BY 2013 THAT THERE WAS NO REFORM.
ON THE CONTRARY, OBAMA WAS DOUBLING DOWN ON THE BUSH
ADMINISTRATION.
>> Stephen: DO YOU SPEND ANY TIME WITH SNOWDEN FOR THIS?
>> I DID.
I WENT NINE TIMES TO MOSCOW.
AND HE HELPED US.
HE COOPERATED WITH US.
HE GAVE US A LOT OF DETAIL -- >> HAS HE SEEN FINAL PRODUCT?
>> YES, HE HAS.
HE IS VERY PLEASED WITH IT AND SAID IT WAS AS REALISTIC ON
POLICY AS IT COULD BE GIVEN THAT IT'S A MOVIE.
HE UNDERSTANDS THE NATURE OF A TWO-HOUR MOVIE VERSUS A
DOCUMENTARY.
WE STUCK TO THE FACTS.
WE HAVEN'T MADE UP ANYTHING OUTRAGEOUS, BUT WE USED DRAMATIC
VICE DEVICES TO MAKE IT A THRILLER.
I WANTED TO MAKE "BOURNE IDENTITY" BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY
GUNS.
THERE IS A BEAUTIFUL SEXY FEMALE LEAD IN IT, SHAILENE WOODLEY.
I THINK YOU'LL LIKE HER.
>> Stephen: IS THERE SEXY TIME IN IT?
THEY'RE TRYING TO SELL SOME TICKETS, MAN.
IS THERE SEXY TIME IN THIS?
>> IT'S SEXY TIME BUT IT'S SURVEYED TIME.
>> Stephen: SO THE GOVERNMENT IS WATCHING THE SEXY TIME?
YOU JUST SOLD SOME TICKET, MY FRIEND.
>> I'M SORRY, THE PORNOGRAPHIC HABITS OF OUR AUDIENCE, WAS-- IS
ALWAYS BEING WATCHED BECAUSE YOU DON'T-- I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO
ALL THE STORIES, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF MUSLIMS IN AMERICA, AND
THEY MADE A SPECIALTY OF WATCHING THEIR PORNOGRAPHIC
HABITS BECAUSE THEY WERE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO DISCREDIT THEM.
>> Stephen: TWO DAYS AGO WE HAD JOSEPH GORDON-LEVITT ON THE
SHOW.
>> YES.
>> AND HE SAID THAT ONE OF THE-- ONE THE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU
TWO DID TOGETHER IS YOU SMOKED SOME WEED AND YOU WATCHED MOVIES
TOGETHER.
LEGALLY, I HAVE TO ASK YOU, ARE YOU HIGH RIGHT NOW?
( LAUGHTER ).
>> UH, I'VE ENJOYED MY LIFE.
( LAUGHTER ) ( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
>> Stephen: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
SNOWDEN IS OUT IN THEATRES NOW.
OLIVER STONE, EVERYBODY!