ABOUT JOE BIDEN.
GIULIANIS LAWYER DENIED WHERE
THE FORMER MAYOR GOT THAT
BRIEFING BUT NBC NEWS STARTS BY
THE REPORTING.
JOINING ME NOW JEREMY BASH,
FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, CIA AND
PENTAGON AND ATTORNEY FROM CHIEF
COUNSEL HOUSE INTELLIGENCE
COMMITTEE AS WELL.
DISINFORMATION IS A BIG DEAL AND
ALSO THE FACT THAT RUDY GIULIANI
ACCORDING TO THE FBI AND "THE
NEW YORK TIMES" ACCOUNT, THE
FBI, RATHER, WAS LOOKING INTO
THE UKRAINIAN PUSH TO GET RID OF
MARIE
MARIA VANOVICH.
IS THIS AN ALLEGED VIOLATION OF
THE FOREIGN LOBBYING LAWS OR IS
THERE SOMETHING MORE HERE?
>> WELL, THERE APPEAR TO BE TWO
STREAMS HERE TO THE FBIS
INVESTIGATION INTO ACTIVITIES
INVOLVING RUDY GIULIANI.
THE FIRST IS RUSSIAN
INTERFERENCE IN THE U.S.
POLITICAL SYSTEM.
OBVIOUSLY, THIS IS A
WELL-UNDERSTOOD STORY BY THE
U.S. INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY
WHICH HAS PUBLISHED ASSESSMENTS
THAT SHOW THAT RUSSIA OBVIOUSLY
WAS INVOLVED IN THE 2016
ELECTION.
BUT ALSO WAS TRYING TO INFLUENCE
THE 2020 ELECTION.
SO THERES A NATIONAL SECURITY
COMMISSION.
I THINK THE ONE QUESTION FOR THE
FBI IS, AS RUSSIA WAS TRYING TO
SOW DISINFORMATION, WAS RUDY
GIULIANI WILLING OR UNWILLING?
WAS HE A STOOGE OR IN ON IT?
I THINK THATS THE FIRST
QUESTION.
THE SECOND MORE SERIOUS QUESTION
IS A QUESTION FOR RUDY GIULIANI
THE CRIMINAL QUESTION.
WHETHER OR NOT HE WAS BREAKING
ANY LAWS.
ONE LAW IS WHETHER OR NOT THE
RUSSIANS WERE TRYING TO PAY
GIULIANI WITH THIS EXCHANGE OF
HISTORICAL GOVERNMENT ACTION OF
FIRING THE U.S. AMBASSADOR, SHE
WAS TOUGH ON THE UKRAINIANS WITH
RESPECT TO CORRUPTION.
AND THE UKRAINIANS WANTED HER
GONE.
THE QUESTION IS WAS THERE A
BRIBERY SCHEME, A QUID PRO QUO
WHERE THEY PAID GIULIANI FOR
THAT AND IN EXCHANGE, THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION FIRED HER.
THATS WHY THE FBI IS
INVESTIGATING HIM.
>> I WANT TO PLAY SOME OF WHAT
AMBASSADOR JOE VANOVICH HAD TO
SAY AT THE IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS.
>> I DO NOT UNDERSTAND
MR. GIULIANIS MOTIVES FOR
ATTACKING ME NOR CAN I OFFER THE
OPINION WHETHER HE BELIEVED THE
ALLEGATIONS HE SPREAD ABOUT ME.
MR. GIULIANI SHOULD HAVE KNOWN
THOSE PLANS WERE SUSPECT, COMING
AS THEY DID WITH QUESTIONABLE
MOTIVE AND BELIEVED THAT THEIR
POLITICAL AMBITIONS WOULD BE
SOMETIME MILLED BY THE
ANTI-CORRUPTION POLICY.
>> AND THERE WERE ALSO CONCERNED
EXPRESSED BY SOME OF THE STATE
DEPARTMENT, OTHER STATE
DEPARTMENT WITNESSES THAT
GIULIANI WAS RUNNING A PARALLEL
STATE DEPARTMENT.
PARALLEL, OF COURSE TO MIKE
POMPEO.
AND THERES ONE THING THAT MIKE
POMPEO DISAGREED WITH THIS
HAPPENING UNDER TRUMPS WATCH.
>> ITS A GREAT POINT, ANDREA,
BECAUSE IF THE UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT, IF THE PRESIDENT
WANTED TO REMOVE AN AMBASSADOR,
HE CAN DO THAT.
HE CAN DO THAT THROUGH THE STATE
DEPARTMENT, THE SECRETARY OF
STATE OR DEPUTY SECRETARY OF
STATE.
AND SAY, MADAM AMBASSADOR, YOUR
SUPERVISES ARE NO LONGER
REQUIRED.
WERE CALLING YOU HOME.
THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENED.
HE USED HIS PERSONAL LAWYER RUDY
GIULIANI TO DO THIS ON HIS
PERSONAL BEHALF.
ITS SORT STRANGE CREDULITY TO
THINK THAT THIS WAS BY THE U.S.
GOVERNMENT.
THIS IS A BACK ROOM DEAL.
THIS IS A NONPARTISAN
INVESTIGATION.
OF COURSE, IT STARTED UNDER THE
TRUMP JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
ITS CONTINUED.
ITS NO WAY A PARTISAN MATTER.
CRIMINAL LAWS WERE BROKEN AND ON
A NONPOLITICAL BASIS, THEYVE
ASSESSED THAT THE U.S. WAS A
TARGET OF DISINFORMATION
CAMPAIGN.
I THINK ALL AMERICANS,
REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT,
INDEPENDENT, WHATEVER, WHO WANT
TO STOP THAT FOR FUTURE ELECTION
CYCLES.
>> AND THERE ARE A LOT OF
QUESTIONS BEING RAISED ABOUT THE
TIMING OF THIS RAID.
OF COURSE, GIULIANI AND HIS
ATTORNEY SPEAKING OUT AGAINST
WHAT THEY CONSIDER
DISCRIMINATION AND ABUSE BY THIS
NEW WHITE HOUSE.
IT STARTED UNDER BILL BARR.
THEN THE QUESTION IS WHY WERENT
THESE WARRANTS ISSUED BEFORE?
BEFORE PRESIDENT TRUMP -- OR THE
FORMER PRESIDENT LEFT OFFICE.
DO YOU THINK THAT THAT WAS
LEGITIMATELY NOT DOING IT IN THE
ELECTION TIME FRAME SO IT DIDNT
CREATE, YOU KNOW, THE KIND OF
BACKLASH AND INFLUENCE, POSSIBLE
INFLUENCE, ON VOTING?
OR WERE THEY TRYING TO STOP IT?
>> I DONT KNOW, ANDREA.
AND I THINK ITS ACTUALLY GOING
TO BE HARD TO KNOW BUS THE ONES
WHO WILL BE ASKING THE QUESTIONS
WHETHER ITS FOLKS FROM THE
EXECUTIVE BRANCH OR FROM
CONGRESS, YOU KNOW, IN A SENSE,
THEY CANT TAINT A NONPARTISAN
INVESTIGATION BY TRYING TO PUT
PRESSURE AND ASKING QUESTIONS.
SO, I THINK THIS SHOULD REMAIN
IN THE NONPOLITICAL LANE OF
CAREER PROSECUTORS AND CAREER
FBI OFFICIALS.
LET THIS PLAY OUT.
LET THE FACTS GO WHERE THEY