ELISE JORDAN, FORMER AIDE TO GEORGE W. BUSH AND MY DEAR
FRIEND SENATOR BOB SORTORSI.
JEFF, TO YOU FIRST, IF I BRAN
BEYER ASPIRIN, AND THERE WERE
CONTAMINATED ASPIRIN AROUND THE
COUNTRY, YOU KNOW WHAT I’D DO,
PULL ALL OF THE ASPIRIN OFFER
THE SHELVES UNTIL WE FIGURE IT
OUT.
OUT. >> MOST OF WHAT HAPPENS ON
FACEBOOK IS GOOD.
>> MOST OF THE ASPIRIN IN
GROCERY STORES ARE OKAY.
>> LOOK FOR YOUR FEED AND TELL
ME WHERE YOU FIND THE NAZIS.
WE HAVE TO SWITCH AROUND,
FACEBOOK DID FINALLY GET ITS ACT
TOGETHER.
TOGETHER. FACEBOOK IS OUR BEST ALLY IN
THIS FIGHT.
THIS FIGHT. WE HAVE THE HEAD OF DHS SAYING,
OH, I DON’T SEE ANY RUSSIAN
STUFF GOING ON.
FACEBOOK IS OUR BEST DEFENSE,
THAT’S WHERE WE ARE.
SO, THEY ARE --
>> THEY TOOK AD DOLLARS FROM
THESE OUTSIDE INFLUENCES.
>> THEY TAKE AD DOLLARS FROM A
LOT OF PEOPLE.
SO DO MEDIA COMPANY AND SO DO
ALL OF US.
IF WE WANT TO LOOK AT AN OUTSIDE
INFLUENCER, THREE BLOCKS AWAY AT
FOX INSTITUTION AND RUPERT
MURDOCH.
MURDOCH. LET’S TRY TO GET PERSPECTIVE ON
WHERE THIS GOES.
FACEBOOK HAD A BIG PROBLEM,
THEY’RE FINALLY ADDRESSING IT
LATE, BUT THEY’RE COMING TO THE
PARTY.
PARTY. WHAT WE NEED TO DO IN
JOURNALISM, MEDIA, IS HELP IN
THIS TO TRY TO IDENTIFY THINGS.
THEY’RE NOT THE ENEMY, RUSSIA IS
THE ENEMY.
THE ENEMY. >> I THINK IT’S POSITIVE THAT
FACEBOOK IS COMING FORWARD,
THEY’RE STARTING TO BE PROACTIVE
AND COMMUNICATE WITH
INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS,
INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS, COMMUNICATE WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT
OFFICIALS SO THEY CAN BE MORAL
PROACTIVE.
PROACTIVE. AND IT’S HARDER FOR PEOPLE IN
GOVERNMENT, OTHER ELECTIONS
INDIVIDUALS WITH PARTISAN
AGENDAS TO DENY THERE’S A
PROBLEM.
PROBLEM. >> ELISE, HIGH UP IN FACEBOOK,
THEY’RE VERY FRUSTRATED BECAUSE
GOVERNMENT ISN’T SHARING
ANYTHING WITH THEM.
GOVERNMENT ISN’T BECAUSE THEY
DON’T WANT TO.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK, BOB?
>> I THINK THE FIGHT ON
NARCOTICS ON STREET CORNERS FOR
50 YEARS AND FAILED FOR 50
YEARS.
YEARS. EVENTUALLY, YOU HAVE TO TAKE
THIS OVERSEAS AT THE PRODUCTION.
THIS IS GOING TO BE WON OR LOST
NOT ON WHAT FACEBOOK DOES,
ALTHOUGH I WOULD COMMEND WHAT
THEY DID IN THE LAST 24 HOURS,
THIS IS A FIGHT WE TAKE TO THE
RUSSIANS, TO THE CHINESE, TO THE
SOURCE, MAKE IT NOT WORTH WHILE.
IF WE’RE GOING TO START POLICING
OURSELVES, THE SLIPPERY SLOPE
BECAUSE THE RUSSIANS CAN GO
OPERATIVE THROUGH SOME AMERICAN.
AND NOW WE’RE CONTROLLING FREE
SPEECH IN AMERICA.
THIS HAS TO BE STAMPED OUT AND
NOT MADE WORTH WHILE IN THE
KREMLIN.
KREMLIN. >> DO YOU THINK THE
GOVERNMENT -- THEY’RE NOT LIKELY
TO DO ANY OF THAT?
>> WE HAVE NO COORDINATED
EFFORT.
EFFORT. >> APPARENTLY NOT.
BUT THAT’S WHAT THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE NEED TO CONSIDER.
THIS IS NOT AS A POLITICAL
PROBLEM, IS THIS GOING TO BECOME
A FREE SPEECH PROBLEM IN OUR
NATIONAL COURT IF THIS IS NOT
SOLVED.
SOLVED. THAT’S THE PRICE OF NOT
CONFRONTING THE RUSSIANS.
>> AMEN.
>> AMEN. >> EVEN IF THEY’RE DOING BETTER,
NO ONE SELF-POLICES.
UNLESS THERE ARE CLEAR
REGULATIONS AND GUARD RAILS DO
YOU REALLY THINK THEY’RE GOING
TO FIND THE RIGHT PATH HERE?
IN THE BANKING INDUSTRY IF YOU
WEREN’T GOING TO GET IN TROUBLE
WITH DOING BUSINESS WITH
UNSAVORY COUNTERPARTIES, THERE
ARE PEOPLE WHO WOULD DO IT.
>> I DO NOT TRUST THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION TO SET THESE
GUARD RAILS.
GUARD RAILS. I HAVE WHAT I CALL THE INFO WARS
WHICH FACEBOOK FAILED.
THEY JUST SUCCEEDED.
THEY FINALLY -- FINALLY, I THINK
THAT THEY’VE GOT TO HAVE TOUGHER
STANDARDS WHERE MARK ZUCKERBERG
IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR FREE
SPEECH IN THIS COUNTRY.
MARK ZUCKERBERG RUNS A PRIVATE
COMPANY WHERE HE CAN SAY THIS
BELONGS ON MY PLATFORM AND THIS
DOESN’T.
DOESN’T. SO, YES, I AGREE, THEY’VE GOT TO
SET HIGHER STANDARDS FOR HUMAN
BEHAVIOR THERE.
BEHAVIOR THERE. BUT KEEP IN MIND THE SCALE,
ZUCKERBERG SAID AT A DEVELOPER’S
CONFERENCE A FEW MONTHS AGO THEY
KILL 1 MILLION FAKE ACCOUNTS A
DAY.
DAY. IT’S NOT AS THOUGH YOU HAVE SOME
HUMANS SAYING THAT LOOKS
RUSSIAN -- DOESN’T HAPPEN,
RIGHT?
RIGHT? YOU’VE CANGOT TO HAVE RULES THAT
RUN THROUGH ALGORITHMS, I HATE
TO SAY, AI.
THE PROBLEM, I AGREE WITH THE
SENATOR, IT’S HUMAN BEHAVIOR.
IT’S NOT TECHNOLOGY.
IT’S HUMAN BEHAVIOR ON
TECHNOLOGY, ESPECIALLY SOME
SMALL NUMBER OF MANIPULATORS.
>> YOU MENTIONED INFO WARS.
THAT’S AN INTERESTING EXAMPLE
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW ALEX JONES
FACES HUGE LEGAL PRESSURE FROM
THE ACTUALLY FAMILIES OF THE
SANDY HOOK SURVIVORS THAT HE’S
DEFAMED.
DEFAMED. ONE THING THAT WAS NOT TAKEN
DOWN IN FACEBOOK WAS THE INFO
WARS VIDEO TALKING ABOUT,
ACCUSING ROBERT MUELLER OF BEING
A PED 0 OPHILE.
THAT PASSED THE SMELL TEST ON
FACEBOOK.
FACEBOOK. >> FACEBOOK, FOR A LONG TIME AND
ONLY IN THE LAST WEEK DID THEY
SAY IT FAILS THE BULLYING TEST.
THAT’S BULLYING, TEST.
>> I UNDERSTAND THERE’S A VERY
HIGH THRESHOLD FOR DEFAMATION
WHEN IT COMES TO A PUBLIC
OFFICIAL BUT THAT’S RIDICULOUS.
>> IT’S NOT EVEN DEFAMATION,
IT’S JUST CRAPPY SPEECH.
>> BOB, I TURN TO YOU, THEN THIS
BECOMES A SITUATION WHERE
CONSERVATIVES SAY YOU’RE JUST
ATTACKING US FOR OUR VIEWS
BECAUSE YOU DON’T LIKE THEM.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. I’LL GO BACK TO MY GREATER
CONCERN HERE IS NOT JUST THE
VIEWS.
VIEWS. WE’VE GOT TO FOCUS ON THIS,
WE’RE ALL DISCOVERING, MAYBE
FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES
SETTING UP AN ARBITRATION IN
AMERICAN SPEECH.
AMERICAN SPEECH. THIS CANNOT BE A MORE DANGEROUS
CONVERSATION.
CONVERSATION. THE CURE COULD BE WORSE THAN THE
DISEASE.
DISEASE. >> THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT.
>> I AGREE.
>> IT MEANS THAT -- WE’RE
SITTING HERE DEBATING SHOULD
FACEBOOK BE THE ARBITER OF WHAT
GETS INTO THE NATIONAL
DISCOURSE?
DISCOURSE? OR SHOULD IT BE THE GOVERNMENT?
WELL, I DON’T WANT EITHER.
I DON’T LIKE WHAT’S GOING ON,
BUT LOOK AT THE CURE YOU’RE
TALKING ABOUT.
TALKING ABOUT. THIS IS THE ULTIMATE SLIPPERY
SLOPE.
SLOPE. >> OKAY.
>> OKAY. BUT IS THIS A PROPAGANDA FIGHT.
WHY SA EYE PRIVATE COMPANY IN
CHARGE OF HOW WE STOP PROPAGANDA
INAFFILIATING OUR DEMOCRACY.
>> BECAUSE OUR GOVERNMENT IS
COMPLICIT, THANK YOU, WITH THAT
PROPAGANDA.
PROPAGANDA. AS I SAY, THEY’RE OUR LAST HOPE.
I AGREE WITH THE SENATOR.
THEY’RE A SLIPPERY SLOPE.
IT’S NOT ABOUT FACEBOOK.
IT’S ABOUT FACEBOOK SETTING THE
STANDARD FOR HUMAN BEHAVIOR.
I’M IN STEPH’S BAR, STEPH SAYS,
JEFF, I’M NOT GOING TO SERVE YOU
BECAUSE YOU’RE A BOZO, GET OUT.
MARK ZUCKERBERG HAS THE LEVEL TO
DO THAT AT SOME LEVEL.
>> HE HAS THE RIGHT AT SOME
LEVEL, AND YOU’RE COMINGE GING O
WEEK WHEN THE WHITE HOUSE KICKED
A JOURNALIST OUT FOR DOING HER
JOB.
JOB. IF MARK ZUCKERBERG GETS TO SAY
YOU’RE A BOZO, GET OUT, THE
PRESIDENT WANTS TO SAY YOU’RE A
BOZO, GET OUT TO ANY JOURNALIST
FACT-CHECKING HIS DAILY LIVES?
>> WELL, THEY’VE HAD A TOUGH
RELATIONSHIP.
RELATIONSHIP. IT’S GENERALLY BEEN TO THE
BENEFIT OF BOTH TO CO-EXIST.
AND THE PRESIDENT DOESN’T
NECESSARILY SEE THE BENEFIT OF
THAT ESTABLISHED RELATIONSHIP.
SO, HE’S BASICALLY EXERTING WHAT
HE HAS -- HE DOES -- HE HAS THE
POWER TO DO THAT.
IS IT RIGHT?
>> I DON’T THINK SO.
>> HE DOES HAVE A PRUB UBLIC
RESPONSIBILITY?
RESPONSIBILITY? >>LE HE BEING THE PRESIDENT?
>> YES.
>> YES. >> IF I HAD A CHANCE OF DECIDING
WHAT GETS INTO THE AMERICAN
DISCOURSE WHO RUNS THE RISK OF
FOREIGN ONES, GETTING HEARD,
THAT’S A TOUGH CHOICE AND I
THINK I’D TAKE MY RISKS.
>> YOU’RE IN THE
MULTIMILLION-DOLLAR COMPANY THAT
DOES THAT, MEDIA HAS ALWAYS DONE
THAT.
THAT. >> WHAT’S SO WONDERFUL ABOUT THE
INTERNET, I THOUGHT, IS THAT WE
WERE GETTING AWAY FROM FREE
SPEECH.
SPEECH. COSTS A BILLION DOLLARS TO GET
IN THE GAME.
>> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. >> AND WE WERE GOING TO HAVE
EXTRAORDINARY AMERICA SPEAK.
THAT’S WHAT’S SO WONDERFUL.
NOW, WE’RE LOSING THAT.
IF YOU’RE GOING TO SET UP U.S.
CORPORATIONS OR THE U.S.
GOVERNMENT BEING THE ASH SISTER
OF SPEECH, IT’S REALLY GONE.
>> I AGREE.
THE PROBLEM IS WE HAVE
MANIPULATORS AHEAD OF THE GAME
REALIZING HOW TO PLAY INTO THE
WEAKNESS OF THE SYSTEM.
>> LET’S JUST SAY, AGAINST ALL
HOPE THAT THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION ACTUALLY STEPPED
UP, DEFENDED THE COUNTRY AND
WENT TO THE RUSSIANS WHICH IS
TOO EXPENSIVE TO DO WHICH THEY
SHOULD.
SHOULD. MANY SAYING THE SAME THING THE
SAME THINGS FOR A VARIETY OF
REASONS WE CAN’T DISCUSS,
THEY’RE COMING IN ANYWAY.
THE WAY YOU DESTROY
IRRESPONSIBLE SPEECH IS YOU
DROWN IT OUT WITH RESPONSIBLE
SPEECH.
SPEECH. >> I AGREE.
THE OTHER WAY YOU DO IT YOU
START TO SET STANDARDS.
NOW, WE HAVE THIS LOOSENING EVER
EMOTIONS ON THE INTERNET WHERE
ANYBODY CAN SAY ANYTHING.
AT SOME POINT, YOU HAVE TO SAY
TO YOUR FRIEND, DID YOU REALLY
MEAN TO DO THAT?
>> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. THIS ULTIMATELY GETS INVOLVED
NOT BY CORPORATIONS, IT GETS
SOLVED BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
>> AMEN.
>> AMEN. >> WE WIN AND LOSE OUR DEMOCRACY
OURSELVES.
OURSELVES. >> AMEN.
>> AMEN. >> LAST WORD.
>> YEAH, I’M NOT THAT
CONFIDENCE.
CONFIDENCE. PEOPLE LOVE THEIR CRAZY SPEECH
ON THE INTERNET.
I DON’T SEE THEM TONING IT DOWN.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS I LEARNED
IN MY POLITICAL CAREER, WHEN I
STARTED, I’D READ SOMETHING AND
SAY, OH, MY GOD, THE WORLD.
THEN YOU COME TO BELIEVE, PEOPLE
DO HAVE A FILTER.
AND YES, SOMEBODY MAY.
BUT YOU CAN’T REACT TO
EVERYTHING YOU READ OR SEE.
PEOPLE ARE NOT AS STUPID AS THEY
APPEAR.
APPEAR. I THINK THIS IS A LINCOLN LINE,
IF YOU SEE THE INDIVIDUAL
AMERICAN, THEY’LL SCARE THE LIFE
OF YOU FOR OUR DEMOCRACY, BUT
THERE IS A COLLECTIVE WISDOM TO
IT.
IT. >> ALSO, IF YOU SIT DOWN
FACE-TO-FACE WITH SOMEONE,
PEOPLE AREN’T EVIL.
THEY WANT TO LIVE THEIR BEST
LIVES.
LIVES. WHEN YOU GO OUT THERE A TRUMP
SUPPORTER AND YOU SAY THOSE
PEOPLE ARE IGNORANT, THIS AND
THAT.
THAT. THEY WANTED TO LIVE A BETTER
LIFE.
LIFE. AND THE SYSTEM THEY WERE LIVING
IN ISN’T SERVING THEM.
>> EXACTLY.
>> EXACTLY. >> THOSE AREN’T PEOPLE BORN OUT
OF HATE AND WANT TO CREATE
VIOLENCE, NO.
VIOLENCE, NO. >> HARDEST PROBLEM WE HAVE IS
CIVILITY.
CIVILITY. >> PEOPLE WANT TO BE SOCIALLY