>> In the future, one of the places where there will actually be bipartisan
agreement is I think indirectly it will have serious effects on labor.
But the sort of willingness now to face up to the threat that china represents
is gonna have some pretty dramatic impact on reshaping supply chains,
on reshaping how manufacturing and labor work, particularly in the United States.
And a lot of the outsourcing that has gone to China is gonna be restored in
fairly short order given the fact that both parties are now
realizing what a threat China represents.
>> Well, look, and aside from China being an adversary and all of that and
I'm a little uneasy with some of the rhetoric that I'm seeing and
it seems like an area where Democrats and Republicans are united.
The rhetoric, I don't want it to lead toward an actual like war with China.
And I feel like Biden has been irresponsible with some of the things
he said.
Like, if China invades Taiwan will have boots on the ground,
don't say stuff like that.
That's incredibly stupid.
But in terms of the manufacturing issues, the supply chain issues,
I'm very happy to see that politicians are finally waking up to the fact that
we need to manufacture things in the United States.
I mean, this is one of the failures of Venezuela's policies.
They stopped manufacturing things, started importing everything.
And once oil prices went down in oil, of course is their number one commodity and
export, they were screwed, right?
So we experienced how insanely fragile our supply chains are.
We need to manufacture jobs here in the United Stets or manufacture products and
bring jobs back here to the United States.
I like that we're headed in that direction to some extent.
The chips act is a good example of that.
So we'll see, we'll see what happens.
>> I think there's certain specified industries,
chips are obviously one of them.
>> Right.
>> Where they actually implicate national security.
And so you are gonna see some right,
left coalitions that are sort of odd when it comes to reshoring that sort of stuff.
>> Same with pharmaceutical drugs, by the way.
>> That's true and that has been manufactured in China here to for, and
that seriously impacts national security is going to be restored.
Much of it's not gonna be restored in the United States, by the way.
A lot of it's gonna end up in Vietnam, some of it's gonna end up in Thailand.
>> Mexico.
>> Yeah, Mexico.
You're gonna see a lot of this stuff go to other places on the globe and the sort of
countervailing 0.2 to the we need to restore everything is that autarky has
essentially been a giant failed economic strategy wherever it's been tried.
The idea of all manufacturing happens in our country.
All products must be produced from within that, that generates economic failure.
I mean, one of the reasons that Venezuela has failed is specifically,
because it is essentially, economically isolated and self-isolated.
I mean, they nationalized virtually all of their industry and
they prevented people from being able to own even within their country.
I mean, there's foreign direct investment basically dried up.
There's no money going into Venezuela and there's half of the story
that's been told when it comes to the American economy about stagnating wages.
The other half that has not been told is that what you get for
your wages now is way better than what you got in 1980.
I mean, that is just a reality.
You would not wish to live in 1980, as opposed to now.
You now have a refrigerator, you have microwave.
You have two cars.
You have- >> Sure, okay, so
if you want to talk about the technological advances-
>> Well, I mean,
the stuff that you have for your money aside from two specifically government
subsidized areas, healthcare and education.
>> There's a lot of crap, okay?
So look, honestly- >> Would you rather live in 1980 like that
standard of living?
>> In terms of the quality of products that Americans could buy?
I wanna go back to the 1950s.
Okay, I'm literally- >> He was right there,
they still driving those cars.
>> I completely stopped buying new clothes.
Everything I buy now is vintage, made by American garment workers in the 1950s.
And those garments, by the way, look like they're brand new.
Brand new, quality.
Like what we did- >> And
the percentage of salary that you would have to spend on that is much.
>> That's true, that's true.
So we- >> Now for the worker,
you're not shopping vintage shops in the 50s.
>> No, no, so okay, but understand.
So this is what happened in the 1970s.
We started offshoring jobs and really focused on consumerism, right?
So wages started to become stagnant, but Americans were okay, because they can rely
on cheap products that are made in other countries through exploited labor, right?
So we have a bunch of cheap crap we can buy.
Sure, but the quality of the stuff we're buying is not there.
We have to replace it after.
I mean, look at clothing in particular.
You buy clothes in America that, by the way,
were made in some other country, in some factory or whatever.
Wash it, falls apart the next day.
>> I mean, that's true, but the percentage of your salary every year that you're
spending on clothing is way lower than it was in 1980.
And when you talk about sort of the economic narrative of the 70s,
there's a countervailing point of view which is that heavy unionization,
high labor costs in the 50s and 60s.
And a time where literally the rest of the world was physically destroyed by
World War II gave us a head start which we then blew over the course of the next two
decades to the point by the 1970s,
we have a decade of economic stagnation with literally no stock growth from
essentially 1963 all the way up til the early to mid-1980s.
Have 20 years where your stocks don't actually appreciate in any serious way,
because the economy basically stops that.
We're getting out competed, the American car companies which are the crown jewel of
American industry are getting out competed by Toyota and Hyundai.
And by the 1970s, 1980s, we're importing all of those cars.
That's not because we offshore to them, it's because we didn't offshore them.
No, we totally did offshore.
Not maybe Asian country, we offshored a lot.
I mean, think about the rust belt, right?
And all the manufacturing jobs that went to Mexico.
>> That's actually happened later.
That happened in the 70s, 80s and 90s.
>> Correct, yeah. >> That was an aspect of attempting to
compete with the import of cars from other countries.
I mean, Toyota becomes a world power in terms of being an actual global
corporation, because our manufacturing costs in the United States are too high.
We're living fat and
happy off the excesses of the rest of the world being destroyed, essentially.
And because of that, we could afford to do all that.
We were the only game in town and then we weren't the only game in town.
Suddenly, Japan rises from the ashes and is an economic world power and
it's out producing us when it comes to cars.
And so you have two choices at that point.
Either you go tariff, you actually start restricting imports and you generate
enormous cost for your own citizens who are now having to spend more money.
>> Right. >> Or you have to start off shoring and
competing and lowering the wages.
And so that's essentially what happened.
>> I would go on the tariff route for sure.
>> So that right.
And by the way, so Trump, right?
I mean, this is sort of that right, left horseshoe that that's been happening.
Obviously, I wouldn't.
Because if you just, again, I will go back to my original point.
I don't think that you'd be willing to have many takers who would be
willing to go back to 1980s level standard of living from 2022.
For as much as we can talk about the excesses of Amazon,
we now live in a world in which you can take a device out of your pocket.
You can hit a button and
any product on Earth will arrive at your door in two days.
>> That's true and look, that's part of consumerism and
it would certainly be a culture shock for Americans to rethink whether or
not they need all of this stuff that's made in other countries.
>> So that's the honest trade off and I appreciate the honest trade off.
>> And I am being honest.
And look, I acknowledge that people might not agree with me.
Most people might not agree with me.
But for me in my personal life have become a lot more happy in
rejecting that consumerist mentality when I spend my money,
I spend on quality items that are gonna last.
And I just feel better about my purchases knowing that it was made, at least at
a time when people were unionized, when they were actually making a living wages.
They were succeeding.
They were able to buy homes for themselves and their families.
I wanna go back to that.
The fact that most Americans now are not able to buy a home in America is insane.
We need to figure out what it is that's leading to this.
Well, we know why we have this inequality.
What we can do to lessen that economic inequality, because we want more
Americans to actually enjoy that slice of the once American dream.