Former President Trump filing
a motion seeking to block
former Vice
President Mike Pence
from speaking to a grand jury
about efforts to overturn
the results of the 2020
presidential election.
Trump claims
that the issues are protected
by executive privilege.
Let's go now
to CNN's Caitlin Paul
and she joins us now.
Good morning to you, Caitlin.
Realistically, will Trump get his way?
Well, we'll have to see, Don.
Right now, this filing is under seal,
but this is the third time
that Donald Trump
has tried to make a claim
like this under seal
in this investigation,
trying to claim
that his presidential communications
should be secret
from criminal investigators.
Looking at January six.
And there's a long history here.
Whenever you look back,
not just
in the
history of the United States,
where courts have really not ruled
in favor
of executive
privilege, claims
whenever there's criminal investigators
wanting to get information.
But there's a long history,
even before this judge
in this particular investigation
related to January six,
where Donald Trump has lost
now every time
he's tried
to make this claim that we know of.
And so it is very possible
he could lose again.
It does
make it a little bit
different that this is about
a communication
between the vice president
and the former president himself
while they're both in office.
But, Don, on the whole,
executive privilege
does tend to fall away
whenever a criminal investigator
says we really want an answer here.
Caitlin,
the top Republican and Democrat
on the House
Intelligence Committee
told Meet the Press
that they have gotten, quote,
a flavor
of the contents of classified documents
obtained from Trump, Biden and Pence.
Listen to this.
Right now,
you have
no idea
whether these were the highest level.
We didn't say we didn't say no. Okay.
Again, we can't get too into the details
we got a flavor for what was there.
And I won't speak for Mike,
but I will tell you, having
been given a flavor,
this is a very serious issue.
This wasn't stuff that we can say
clearly does not matter.
It matters in all three levels.
Again, we don't we don't know yet.
The question is, what's the flavor?
Well, the flavor is it's not.
It's not the whole thing.
It's a taste of what it is.
They clearly are saying that they believe
that there is a serious issue
here as intelligence committee members,
a Republican
and a Democrat,
standing together
and speaking about what they've learned
in this first crucial briefing.
But they are also
in the rest of that interview
indicating that they are not satisfied
with the amount of information
that they have gotten so far
about these classified documents issues.
They also say that they don't know
the classification levels
of the documents
that were being kept outside
of secure facilities
in any of these investigations.
And they indicate that
the FBI investigation is ongoing.
At least with Donald Trump.
We also know that it's ongoing
with with Joe Biden there.
Special counsel's
looking at both of those things.
And whatever the FBI
and the intelligence community finds,
how secure these documents were,
how they were being kept,
who may have looked at them after
they were outside of the
the hands of the federal government.
All of that is going to play into
charging decisions
and the criminal investigations.
Don, I'm
not sure
if it's going to be in the background
may actually overshadow
what happens in 20, 24.
Kaitlan, thank you.
Joining us now
Ellie Honig, CNN senior
legal analyst, former assistant U.S.
attorney for the Southern District
of New York.
Ali, we've talked about this
defense before.
Trump has used it
to attempt
to block or block the testimony
of a number of folks who work for him.
Does executive privilege
apply to the vice
president's testimony in this case?
Well, this is a serious long Jim.
Donald Trump
actually has quite a poor record
of winning on these claims.
But he does bring them
and he does manage to drag things out.
Donald Trump's
got two big problems
with his executive privilege
argument here.
The first one is that
this is a criminal grand jury subpoena.
And courts tend to honor and uphold
grand jury subpoenas,
not automatically,
but typically a grand jury subpoena
will overcome
a claim of executive privilege.
The second problem is Donald
Trump is not president anymore.
He's a former president.
Again, it's possible
that a former president
can bring in executive privilege claim,
but it's much more difficult
than if he were still
the sitting president.
So I think this one's a long shot.
But as you said, Jim,
this is a pattern for Donald Trump.
He likes to claim executive privilege.
It helps him slow things down.
Look, I think everybody knew
this was coming, right?
We know that Mike Pence
is also trying to claim that
under the speech and debate clause
that he doesn't need
to submit to the subpoena.
When you look at where we stand,
do you see a scenario
where the special counsel
moves forward
without Mike Pence's testimony?
so that's a really interesting
question, Erica.
And that's the calculation
that that special counsel
has to make right now.
Do we go to court and fight
both of these claims?
Donald Trump's
executive privilege,
plain and Mike Pence's
speech and debate claim?
Do we take it through the district court?
Do we go to the court of appeals?
If we when do we
maybe then have to wait
for the Supreme Court
or do we just move ahead
without Mike Pence's testimony?
But here's the risk.
You need to know what Mike Pence says.
If you're a prosecutor,
A, it could be helpful to your case.
There were certain
one on one conversations
you would want to know about
he might be harmful.
What if Mike Pence went in there
and said things
that were all favorable to Donald Trump?
What if Mike Pence said
he never pressured me?
He told me to just do the right thing.
You need to know that either way
as a prosecutor,
we will be
watching and waiting and calling on you
as always, for your expertize.
Lee, thank you.
Always ready, guys. Thank you.