Cindy, Mara, CINDYMARA. And you
are Loosened's daughter. I am? Tell
me first, tell me a little bit
about your dad. What was he like?
My dad was my hero.
I couldn't have been blessed with
better parents, both my mom and my dad.
My dad was. Warm. He was funny.
He was charming. He taught us all a lot of,
you know, the the morals that we have
today is really for my mom and dad.
And he was just a genuinely nice, humble man.
What was your relationship like with him?
We were very close.
He was close, really, with all of his kids.
There's four of us. And um.
You know, his work took him away a lot.
I remember on a couple of birthdays
in a row he would be out of state,
and I remember giving him
a hard time about that.
But when he was in town,
he would come by, we'd go to lunch.
We just had a very warm relationship.
Were you proud to be his
daughter when you were
younger? Ohh. I was always so
proud to be his daughter and it
helped me out a lot growing up
with tickets and things like that.
That was always really nice. But no,
I was always very proud to be his daughter.
He was strict but he was very loving
and kind to everybody. You know,
all of my friends really enjoyed him and.
Yeah, he was a really neat guy.
Were you interested in his police work?
Very interested in his police work.
I thought about being a policewoman.
Many times. But I remember I would go to
the Detective Bureau and he would take me
back and show me his binders of cases,
which was sometimes quite shocking,
but I was always very interested
in what he did and I was always
very proud of the work that he did.
He was sort of a legendary
homicide detective down here where
you are aware of that as a kid.
As a kid? No, not really.
I remember going to a couple of the trials
that some people that he had arrested,
including including Kelsey Grammars.
Sister, one of the men that went to
trial on that case, Freddie Glenn,
I remember sitting in at that
trial and I remember being very
proud of what my dad had done.
And then can you talk about his
connection to the Jon Benet Ramsey murder?
How, where, what kind of an
impact did it have on his life?
You know, at the time when he
was alive and working and then
at retirement and all that,
well, I think it was hard for him to
really make a decision to join the team
on the Ramsey case for the DA because,
you know, my mom had not been
doing well for many years.
She had struggled with cancer.
And so I think once he got
past that and my mom, you know,
gave him the OK to do that,
he just completely jumped in with both feet.
As he did to every case,
he was a very meticulous,
very thorough, gifted detective
and so he jumped in on that case.
Right away.
He was convinced that it was
an intruder. Is that correct?
Yeah, really. Within probably the
first couple of days after he arrived
in Boulder and settled in and started
reviewing the all of the evidence and,
you know, he looked at everything with,
you know, he take out a magnifying
glass and be looking at pictures.
And within a couple of days he already
had a lot of lights going off that
told him that something was not right,
that they were possibly looking in
the wrong direction because they were
completely focused on the Ramseys.
The Police Department was or
the Police Department, yeah,
but and he. Thought it was an intern.
He did not think it was
the Ramseys. That right?
He yeah, he thought it was an intruder.
Or at least he he was.
He he believed that.
The intruder theory
needed to be investigated.
You know, that was always says
he didn't make any preconceived,
you know, assumptions.
He just felt that they needed
to follow where the evidence was
leading and he did not feel that
it was leading to the Ramseys.
And he eventually left the DA's office,
correct, because he felt that the
Police Department was not open to his.
Ideas of the case on the case,
right, right.
They just completely stonewalled him.
Anytime that he had any kind of a theory
or a suggestion of alternate theories,
they just would shut him down.
And the reason he resigned was
because he just felt that they were
actually persecuting the Ramseys,
not even that they were
intending to prosecute them,
but that they were actually persecuting them.
So he left because he didn't
want to be part of it.
He couldn't in good faith be
a part of that team anymore
and then tell me what was his
involvement with the investigation?
After he left the team,
he just felt that they needed
to follow where the evidence was
leading and he did not feel that
it was leading to the Ramseys.
He worked on that case probably,
I would say probably 10-11
hours a day in his Home Office.
He never gave up on the case.
He organized all of the information
that he had on to the computer.
He cross referenced information.
He never gave up on that case ever.
Did he talk to you about it?
Yep, he did.
He talked to a lot of people about it.
You know, if people would stop by,
he would be glad to show them,
you know, bits and pieces of
his PowerPoint presentation,
which he had prepared.
And he was always working on that.
And when when he was diagnosed with cancer
and he knew that he didn't have long,
he started talking to his family and to
friends and colleagues about this case.
And you know how he just didn't
want it to be forgotten.
When he was in Hospice,
he was talking to.
To us about it and just asking us
to make sure that the case didn't
get forgotten once he was gone.
He was very afraid of that.
Just back up at first second.
What was it about this case
that made him so passionate?
Well, he was passionate about
every case that he ever worked.
He really was he.
You know, he had this metaphor,
I guess it would be for his cases
where he just, he always said that.
The first thing that he would
look at when he came to a murder
scene was the victim shoes.
That, um, they were,
he was drawn to the shoes because he said,
you know, did the did the victim know
that this was the last time they
were going to put on their shoes?
And so he just really put
himself in the victim's shoes.
And he did that for every
case as well as Japanese case.
Did he talk to you over the years after
he left the DA's office when he was
working on the case? Basically on it.
Was he working on the case on his own?
Essentially, he was working on it on his own.
Did he talk to you about his passion for it?
Yeah. Yeah. He talked to it was
a lot of us. It was obvious.
It was obvious that he was.
You could really drop
in on him anytime and.
Could be in his in his
office working on this case.
Did he think it would ever be solved?
He felt it could be solved if they
would look toward an intruder,
if they would just focus on the
evidence and follow the evidence
wherever it led and that he was
very open minded about that.
Like he didn't want to pigeonhole
his information and just
have somebody believe him.
He just wanted them to follow the
evidence and that included the
DNA evidence and he always thought
that DNA would solve the case.
I think he was a little concerned
that if it stayed with Boulder
it would not get solved.
Because they were so focused on the
Ramseys that he didn't see them
really looking away from that.
But he knew that DNA was going to
progress and he really did think
that DNA was going to solve the case.
Is it overstating it to say that one of
his dying wishes was that you and your
family and your team continue his work?
That really was his dying wish.
He was within hours of death and
he was still talking about that.
So tell me what you did.
Well, after he died, we,
you know, held the service.
It was a beautiful service.
And then we got together
with some family members.
I've got two sisters and a brother,
a cousin and some of my dad's
former coworkers, including,
like the former sheriff of El Paso
County and other homicide detectives.
And we got together and just started,
I don't know,
brainstorming about what we could
do to try and solve the case.
And that really was his dying wish.
And we got together and just started,
I don't know,
brainstorming about what we could
do to try and solve the case and
when my dad was in the hospital.
He had given me.
A name and he said just start with this name.
He said write down the name
and he said start there.
And so that's where we started we.
You know,
started trying to figure out how
we could get DNA on this person.
And that was our first steps.
So. And that essentially.
And that essentially is what
you're doing still. Yeah.
So tell me what you're doing.
Yeah. So we realized that in all
of the information that my dad has,
because he has a lot of it,
it was all very well organized.
He had come up with a list of of.
Of people and of things that he
thought were important to this case.
And there's a lot of them,
there's a lot of things on that list,
a lot of people on that list,
a lot of things on that list.
And we decided that that was what we
needed to concentrate, was that list,
to concentrate on that list.
And so that's what we started to doing.
And we just started with that one person
and decided that we would just try
and get their DNA and test their DNA.
And that's what we've been doing
ever since is going down the list,
kind of reorganizing the list
and trying to get and test DNA.
How many people's DNA have you
gotten and tested? Well, we.
I'd have to count them.
I mean, it's it's not a lot,
I think probably about.
As you know, about 20,
yeah, so about 20.
And we've still got some
DNA that we're waiting on.
And how are you getting these people's DNA?
How have you gotten their DNA?
We do it by various methods.
Like we'd hate to really disclose them,
but a lot of times it's just
following them around trying to get.
A straw trying to you know that
what you see on TV basically
is what we're trying to do.
And have you gotten any
interesting results yet?
No, we we have not gotten a hit yet,
which is what we're waiting for,
but we're just. Basically eliminating
people of interest from that list.
And so you've been doing this for
this team has been assembled for
12 years or yeah just about. Yep.
And how often do you work on the case.
It's just seems like there's
something going on all the time.
We have meetings probably every
three or four months or so where we
really get together and brainstorm.
But other than that we're,
we're we're constantly texting
each other and emailing and.
Touching the case, I guess you would call it.
And do you have any involvement?
Have you been in touch with
Boulder DA or Boulder PD at all?
We've met with them a couple of times,
both the Boulder DA and Boulder PD together,
representatives of both offices twice.
And have given them, you know,
what we think are you know.
Full information, you know,
outside labs that we think that
should be contacted and what they
could potentially do with the DNA.
We've given them lists of things that we
still think need to be tested or retested.
There's a lot of evidence in this case
that we don't believe has been tested.
Umm. Does, does your involvement
with this case make you
feel close to your father?
Can you feel his presence?
Yeah, that the only reason that we're
doing this is because of my dad, you know?
Otherwise, I think we would
have probably just, you know.
Yeah, it's my dad that that keeps us going.
We had a lot of respect for him
and it was important to him
and so it's important to us.
So, like, do you, does it
make you feel closer to him?
Yeah, yeah. Ohh. Yeah, it really does.
You know, sometimes I still,
you know, we've got clips of my dad
from various news shows or whatever.
And just to me, I can't believe that he's
been gone for 12 years because he just,
I hear his voice in my head.
I still sometimes have dreams
where I feel like he's, you know,
entering my dreams and giving me information,
which I can't remember when I wake up.
But yeah, I feel very close to him.
Do you think this case will ever be solved?
I think it can be solved
if they will. Test the DNA.
I do believe it can be solved.
I mean this man left his DNA and.
There's no reason that that
we can't find who did this.
But if you're successful,
you won't need them to test the DNA.
You're doing it yourself, right?
Well, that would really,
if you need their sample to compare
it to. Yes. If we were able to get
DNA and test it and it was a hit,
that's just really step one.
We're just pointing at the direction
of the person that should be looked at.
You know, we're not trying to say
that we would have a case that
you could take to court, you know,
would be up to the law enforcement
then to take it from there.
At least they have.
The direction to go in,
right? So let me just be clear.
So you're you're getting samples from people,
but what are you comparing it to?
How do you don't, how can
we compare them to the DNA that
was found on the long Johns?
Oh, and you have that because of your dad's
right, I see. Well,
and that's public information.
The DNA the Long Johns report is
a matter of public information.
Ohh. The sequence is on there
and they sequences on them.
So you're comparing it to that. Yeah.
Can you just explain that to me briefly?
Well, I'm not a DNA expert,
but but basically, you know,
the when they tested the long Johns,
they found the same markers
and more that they found in her
panties and under her fingernails.
So, you know, experts have said
that there's no innocent explanation
for why an unknown males DNA would
be found in the long Johns in her
panties and under her fingernails.
And so that report of the long Johns,
which was somebody posted online.
Years ago is what is used to compare.
So you know they come up with the
markers from whoever we submit and
then they just compare it to the.
Markers found on the long Johns
got it. And so do you think,
have you reached the same
level of passion for this case,
perhaps obsession that your father did?
I don't think I share the
same obsession as my dad.
Sometimes I I feel like I'm gonna have
a talk with him when I see him again
about kind of what he put in our lap
because we feel such a, you know,
a love for our dad that we want to
pursue what was important to him,
which was this case.
But on the other hand,
it really takes a lot out of you.
And would you say your interest,
passion for the case is more about
continuing your father's work or giving
closure to the Ramsey family or both?
Is it equal measure?
Oh, I think it's both equal measure.
You know we feel so much for
the Ramseys and what they've
gone through all these years,
not only having to live with
the daughters violent death,
but being accused of being
the perpetrator of that death.
So we would love to bring.
Closure for the Ramseys.
Do you have any involvement
with the with the family?
Are they paying you for any of this?
No. No we don't. We do this all for free.
And but you're obviously
in touch with, I mean,
yes, Andrew, Yep, we do.
We know them and we contact them.
We don't, you know,
they're not part of our team.
We're doing this.
You know, with without them.
But definitely if we find
something interesting,
we'll let them know.
And, you know, we. Yeah.
So we do have contact with them.
Do you think your father would
be proud of you for doing this?
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, I think he'd be proud.
Wanna you know? And now it's kind
of trickling down to my kids and,
you know, my his family's grandkids.
That are kind of taking this over
because they had such a love and
respect for their grandfather,
you know, that they're coming
on board and helping us too.
So yeah, I think he'd be proud of us all.
It's become a real family
affair in this case.
Yeah. Yep, it has. Yeah.
I think I'm good. You were terrific,
Anna. Do you have questions? You
said that your dad thought
it could be solved.
Do you think it could be solved?
Yeah, I I do think it can be solved.
Yep. I think it's a DNA case.
I think that's somewhere that
person's DNA can be found.
We just have to employ the, you know,
the current technology to the evidence.
And I think that the person can be found
so it can be solved.
Do you think it will be solved?
Yeah, I think.
I think it will be solved.
In our lifetimes.
Maybe not in our lifetimes.
Maybe in my kids lifetimes.
But yeah, we're of course,
we're hoping that it's
solved this year, you know?
Yeah, we always just
remain very hopeful.
Do you do anything on like on
the anniversary for death or.
No, not really, other than we just,
you know, say a prayer for the Ramses
and we think about them and, you know,
our families is always talking about
it around this time of the year, so.
Great. Super. You're so good. Jeez, great.