MSNBC ON A FRIDAY NIGHT. GOOD EVENING ONCE AGAIN FROM OUR
NBC NEWS HEADQUARTERS HERE IN
NEW YORK.
NEW YORK. HERE WE ARE, DAY 918 OF THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. THERE IT WAS IN COURT PAPERS
FILED TODAY.
FILED TODAY. THE "I" WORD, CLEAR AS DAY.
EVEN IF THE INTENTION OF
CONGRESS AND DEMOCRATS IF
CONGRESS COULD NOT BE LESS
CLEAR.
CLEAR. TO LISTEN TO THE COURT FILING,
THE HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE
HAS ALREADY EFFECTIVELY BEGUN AN
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY. THEY’VE PETITIONED A FEDERAL
JUDGE TO UNSEAL WHAT ARE
SUPPOSED TO BE SECRET GRAND JURY
MATERIALS RELATED TO THE MUELLER
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. IN THE DOCUMENT, THE COMMITTEE
NOTES ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT
ARE, QUOTE, UNDER CONSIDERATION
AS PART OF THE COMMITTEE’S
INVESTIGATION, ALTHOUGH NO FINAL
DETERMINATION HAS BEEN MADE
BECAUSE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
POLICIES WILL NOT ALLOW
PROSECUTION OF A SITTING
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES IS THE ONLY
INSTITUTION OF THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT THAT CAN HOLD
PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR THESE
ACTIONS.
ACTIONS. TO DO SO, YOU THOUGHT WE WERE
DONE, THE HOUSE MUST HAVE ACCESS
TO ALL THE RELEVANT FACTS AND
CONSIDER WHETHER TO EXERCISE ITS
FULL ARTICLE ONE POURS INCLUDING
CONSTITUTIONAL POWER OF THE
UTMOST IMPORTANCE OF THE
ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT.
THIS MORNING THE CHAIRMAN OF THE
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, JERRY
NADLER, ALONG WITH MEMBERS OF
HIS COMMITTEE BEHIND HIM
EXPLAINED THEIR LATEST LEGAL
MOVE BUT WITH SLIGHTLY DIFFERING
PERSPECTIVES.
PERSPECTIVES. >> I THINK TOO MUCH HAS BEEN
MADE OF THE PHRASE IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY.
INQUIRY. WE ARE DOING WHAT OUR COURT
FILING SAYS WE ARE DOING, WHAT I
SAID WE ARE DOING, THAT IS TO
SAY WE ARE USING OUR FULL
ARTICLE ONE POURS TO INVESTIGATE
THE CONDUCT OF THE PRESIDENT AND
CONSIDER WHAT REMEDIES THERE
ARE, AMONG OTHER THINGS WE WILL
CONSIDER ARE OBVIOUSLY --
WHETHER TO RECOMMEND ARTICLES OF
IMPEACHMENT.
IMPEACHMENT. >> I WOULD SAY WE ARE AT AN
IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATION.
IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATION. AS TO THE RESULTS OF THE
INVESTIGATION, IT COULD LEAD TO
ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT OR IT
COULD LEAD TO SOMETHING ELSE.
>> WE’RE NOW CROSSING A
THRESHOLD WITH THE FILING OF
THIS -- WITH THIS FILING, AND WE
ARE NOW OFFICIALLY ENTERING INTO
AN EXAMINATION OF WHETHER OR NOT
TO RECOMMEND THE ARTICLES OF
IMPEACHMENT.
IMPEACHMENT. >> NOW, WAS THAT THE SAME SONG
OR THREE SEPARATE PIECES OF
SHEET MUSIC?
SHEET MUSIC? WE WILL HEAR FROM ANOTHER MEMBER
OF THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE,
DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSWOMAN
DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSWOMAN MADELEINE DEAN OF PENNSYLVANIA
IN JUST A BIT.
SPEAKERS NANCY PELOSI HAS BEEN
WORKING TO KEEP HER CAUCUS IN
LINE WHILE SHE RESISTS CALLS TO
LAUNCH IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS.
ACCORDING TO "THE NEW YORK
TIMES," QUOTE, SHE SIGNED OFF ON
USING THE IMPEACHMENT
INVESTIGATION LANGUAGE IN THE
HOUSE JUDICIARY LAWSUIT, AND IT
WOULD APPEAR TO PROVIDE A MIDDLE
COURSE FOR DEMOCRATS, ALLOWING
THEM TO CONTINUE TO BUILD A CASE
WITHOUT FORCING MEMBERS FROM
MODERATE DISTRICTS TO VOTE ON
WHETHER TO FORMALLY DECLARE
IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS TO BE
UNDER WAY.
UNDER WAY. NOW, A LOT OF THINGS HERE.
THIS WAS IMMEDIATELY BRANDED
IMPEACHMENT LITE TODAY.
IT’S ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE
CONGRESS HAS LEFT TOWN.
THEY’RE OFF ON A SIX-WEEK SUMMER
BREAK.
BREAK. TODAY SPEAKER PELOSI WAS ASKED
ABOUT CONCERNS THAT SHE MIGHT BE
TRYING TO RUN OUT THE CLOCK ON
IMPEACHMENT.
IMPEACHMENT. >> NO, I’M NOT TRYING TO RUN OUT
THE CLOCK.
THE CLOCK. LET’S GET SOPHISTICATED ABOUT
THIS, OKAY?
THIS, OKAY? >> HOW LONG WILL THIS FIGHT BE?
>> WE WON’T PROCEED WHEN WE HAVE
WHAT WE NEED TO PROCEEDED.
NOT ONE DAY SOONER.
AND EVERYBODY HAS THE LIBERTY
AND THE LUXURY TO ESPOUSE THEIR
OWN POSITION AND TO CRITICIZE ME
FOR TRYING TO GO DOWN THE PATH
IN THE MOST DETERMINED, POSITIVE
WAY.
WAY. AGAIN, THEY’RE ADVOCACY FOR
IMPEACHMENT ONLY GIVES ME
LEVERAGE.
LEVERAGE. NO, I HAVE COMPLAINT WITH WHAT
THEY’RE DOING.
THEY’RE DOING. I’M WILLING TO TAKE WHATEVER
HEAT THERE IS THERE TO SAY THE
DECISION WILL BE MADE IN A
TIMELY FASHION.
TIMELY FASHION. THIS ISN’T ENDLESS.
WHEN WE HAVE THE BEST, STRONGEST
POSSIBLE CASE.
POSSIBLE CASE. >> RIGHT NOW AT LEAST 97
DEMOCRATS ARE CALLING FOR AN
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY, SEVEN THEM
CAME OUT IN SUPPORT AFTER THE
MUELLER TESTIMONY.
MUELLER TESTIMONY. AS FOR THE PUBLIC, A NEW MORNING
CONSULT POLITICAL POLL CONDUCTED
AFTER THE MUELLER HEARING FOUND
37% OF VOTERS SAY THEY SUPPORT
THE IDEA OF IMPEACHMENT, 46% SAY
THEY’RE AGAINST IT.
THE DEMOCRATS CAN READ POLLS
PRETTY WELL, SO CAN THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. LATE TODAY, TRUMP LASHED OUT AT
HOUSE DEMOCRATS WHILE GETTING IN
A SWIPE AT HIS PREDECESSOR.
>> I WATCHED BOB MUELLER AND
THEY HAVE NOTHING.
THERE’S NO COLLUSION, THERE’S NO
OBSTRUCTION.
OBSTRUCTION. THEY HAVE NOTHING.
IT’S A DISGRACE.
WE WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT
HAPPENED WITH THE LAST DEMOCRAT
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. LET’S LOOK INTO OBAMA, THE WAY
THEY LOOKED AT ME.
THE REPUBLICANS WERE GENTLEMEN
AND WOMEN.
AND WOMEN. WHEN WE HAD THE MAJORITY IN THE
HOUSE, THEY DIDN’T DO SUBPOENAS
ALL DAY LONG.
THEY DIDN’T DO WHAT THESE PEOPLE
HAVE DONE.
HAVE DONE. SO DESTRUCTIVE TO OUR COUNTRY,
AND I THINK THAT’S WHY WE’RE
GOING TO TAKE BACK THE HOUSE.
THAT’S WHY WE’RE EASILY GOING TO
HOLD THE PRESIDENCY AND WE’RE
GOING TO CONTINUE TO HOLD THE
SENATE.
SENATE. THESE PEOPLE ARE CLOWNS.
THE DEMOCRATS ARE CLOWNS.
>> NOT LONG AFTER THAT, NEWS
BROKE ABOUT TRUMP’S WALL IN A
5-4 DECISION, THE SUPREME COURT
SAID THE PRESIDENT CAN PROCEED
WITH PLANS TO SHIFT ABOUT
$2.5 BILLION IN UNSPENT MILITARY
FUNDS TO BUILD 100 MILES OF WALL
ALONG THE SOUTHERN BORDER.
THAT DECISION REVERSES A LOWER
COURT RULING.
COURT RULING. TRUMP, OF COURSE, QUICKLY
DECLARED THE DECISION, QUOTE, A
BIG VICTORY AND A BIG WIN FOR
BORDER SECURITY AND THE RULE OF
LAW, ALL OF WHICH BRINGS US TO
OUR LEAD-OFF DISCUSSION TO END
THIS WEEK ON A FRIDAY NIGHT.
JONATHAN ALLEN, MELANIE
ZA
ZA ZA, AND WITH US HERE IN
NEW YORK, JESSICA ROTH, FORMER
ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK,
NOW A PROFESSOR IN NEW YORK.
WELCOME TO YOU ALL.
JONATHAN, YOUR HEADLINE, WHAT
YOU WROTE FOR US TODAY READS,
MUELLER LEFT IMPEACHMENT BREAD
CRUMBS.
CRUMBS. IF DEMOCRATS CHOOSE TO FOLLOW.
TELL OUR AUDIENCE WHAT YOU MEANT
BY THAT.
BY THAT. >> LOOK, THE FIRST THING ABOUT
ALL THIS, BRIAN, IS WHETHER OR
NOT THE PRESIDENT COMMITTED HIGH
CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS THAT ARE
IMPEACHABLE.
IMPEACHABLE. THE QUESTION REMAINS AS TO
WHETHER THE HOUSE HAS THE VOTES
TO IMPEACH HIM, AND RIGHT NOW
THERE’S NO EVIDENCE OF THAT,
EVEN IF THERE IS EVIDENCE OF
THOSE HIGH CRIMES AND
MISDEMEANORS, IT’S GOING TO WHAT
YOU SAW ROBERT MUELLER DO THE
OTHER WAY IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE,
AND I THINK THIS IS IMPORTANT
EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS A LOT OF
ATTENTION TO OPTICS, WHAT HE DID
WAS HE DETAILED THAT CASE.
HE DETAILED THE CASE THAT HE
MADE IN HIS REPORT ABOUT THE
PRESIDENT SOLICITING,
PRESIDENT SOLICITING, ENCOURAGING, AND ACCEPTING HELP
FROM A HOSTILE FOREIGN POWER.
HE MADE THE CASE ABOUT THE
PRESIDENT LYING TO THE AMERICAN
PUBLIC ABOUT IT, AND HE MADE THE
CASE ABOUT OBSTRUCTION OF
JUSTICE INSTANCE AFTER INSTANCE
OF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
IT’S UP TO THE HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES TO DECIDE
WHETHER THOSE ACTIONS RISE TO
THE LEVEL OF IMPEACHMENT, AND
THE QUESTION WILL BE ANSWERED
WILL HOUSE MEMBERS GO BACK TO
THEIR CONSTRICTS FOR THE NEXT
SIX WEEKS FOR THIS AUGUST
RECESS.
RECESS. THEY’RE GOING TO HEAR FROM
CONSTITUENTS AND DONORS.
IF THEY’RE FIRED UP AND ANGRY
AND SAY THEY WANT TO SEE
PRESIDENT IMPEACHED, YOU’LL SEE
A HOUSE THAT’S VERY MOTIVATED
WHEN THEY COME BACK.
IF THEY DON’T HEAR THIS, YOU’LL
SEE IT GO SLOWER.
>> YOU ARE HOUSE COUNSEL FOR THE
PURPOSES OF THIS DISCUSSION.
>> THIS FILE WAS ABOUT GETTING
THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA TO GET
INFORMATION THAT WAS REDACTED
THAT LIMITS THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN
WHICH A COURT CAN RELEASE GRAND
JURY MATERIAL.
JURY MATERIAL. THIS FILING WAS ABOUT GETTING
WITHIN ONE OF THE EXCEPTIONS IN
THAT RULE.
THAT RULE. THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, THE
COURT OF APPEALS THERE RECENTLY
ISSUED AN OPINION THAT LIMITED
THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH A
COURT CAN RELEASE GRAND JURY
MATERIAL.
MATERIAL. AND THE COURT, THE D.C. CIRCUIT
SAID IN THAT OPINION THAT AN
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY WOULD BE A
CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH THE
DISTRICT COURT COULD RELEASE THE
MATERIAL.
MATERIAL. SO THIS FILING WAS ABOUT GETTING
WITHIN THAT EXCEPTION.
THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT THE
HOUSE WENT ON THE RECORD IN AN
OFFICIAL FILING SAYING WE ARE,
IN FACT, ENGAGED IN AN
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY. >> ANY CHANCE OF FEDERAL JUDGE
COMES BACK AND SAYS ARE YOU
REALLY?
REALLY? >> THERE IS, OF COURSE, A CHANCE
THAT THE COURT WILL, AND WE
HAVEN’T YET SEEN THE OPPOSITION
IF THERE WILL BE.
I ASSUME THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE IS GOING TO OPPOSE THAT.
SO WE’LL NEED TO SEE THE
RESPONSE.
RESPONSE. BUT I THINK THAT IF THE HOUSE IS
REPRESENTING TO THE COURT THAT
UNDER THE RULES GOVERNING THE
HOUSE, THAT THE HOUSE DECIDES
UPON, IT IS ENGAGED IN AN
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY, THAT’S WHAT
THEY’VE SAID IN THE FILING,
TINKER COURT WOULD GIVE
CONSIDERABLE DEFERENCE TO THE
HOUSE’S OWN INTERPRETATION OF
ITS RULES.
ITS RULES. THERE ARE FACTS TO BACK UP THE
REPRESENTATION THEY’RE IN AN
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY. THERE HAVE BEEN ALTER OF
IMPEACHMENT INTRODUCED IN THE
WHITE HOUSE AND THEY HAVE BEEN
REFERRED TO THE JUDICIARY
COMMITTEE AND THE HOUSE PASSED A
RESOLUTION GIVING CONSIDERABLE
AUTHORITY TO THE JUDICIARY
COMMITTEE TO ENFORCE SUBPOENAS
WITHOUT GOING TO THE FULL HOUSE.
SO THERE’S A LOT TO BACK UP THE
ASSERTION THAT THEY’RE, IN FACT,
ENGAGED IN AN IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY.
INQUIRY. >> THIS IS WHY WAVE LAWYER
PRESENT.
PRESENT. MELANIE, HOWEVER GIANT A SIDE
SHOW THIS IS, DOES ANYTHING
ABOUT THIS FILING, ANYTHING YOU
SAW OR HEARD TODAY, PUT NADLER
AND PELOSI AT ODDS?
>> THEY’RE DEFINITELY TRYING TO
DOWNFLAY IDEA THERE’S A GULF
BETWEEN THEM OR THERE’S ANY
TENSIONS BUT MY COLLEAGUES AT
POLITICO REPORTED THAT JUST THIS
WEEK AFTER THE MUELLER HEARING
THEY HAD A PRIVATE CLOSED-DOOR
MEETING AND NADLER TRIED TO
PRESS PELOSI TO OPEN AN
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY. SHE REBUFFED HIM ONCE AGAIN.
THIS IS SOMETHING HE’S DONE
REPEATEDLY.
REPEATEDLY. I THINK THERE COULD BE ROOM FOR
TENSIONS TO GROW BETWEEN THEM,
BUT RIGHT NOW THEY’RE TRYING TO
PUT ON A UNITED FRONT HEADING
INTO THE AUGUST RECESS.
IT’S VERY SIGNIFICANT THAT
PELOSI SIGNED OFF ON THE
LANGUAGE IN THIS COURT FILING
AND SAID FOR THE FIRST TIME AS
JESSICA LAID OUT THAT THE HOUSE
DEMOCRATS ARE CONSIDERING
WHETHER TO LAUNCH AN IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY.
INQUIRY. THAT’S A BIGOTED.
IT SHOWS PELOSI’S TRYING TO KEEP
THE BASE HAPPY.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, SHE’S NOT
COMFORTABLE WITH FORMALLY
OPENING AN INQUIRY.
SHE’S TRYING TO PROTECT HER
MODERATE MEMBERS WHO DON’T WANT
TO HAVE TO TAKE THAT TOUGH VOTE,
ESPECIALLY HEADING INTO 2020.
>> FRANCO, THE PRESIDENT
OBVIOUSLY COULD NOT BE MORE
BELLICOSE ON THIS SUBJECT.
HOW IS THE WEST WING FEELING
REALLY ABOUT THE PROSPECT OF
IMPEACHMENT THESE DAYS?
>> I MEAN, LOOK, THE WEST WING
DOES NOT WANT IMPEACHMENT
HEARINGS.
HEARINGS. THEY’RE PUSHING BACK.
KELLYANNE CONWAY TODAY WAS
PRESSING BACK, DEFENDING THE
WHITE HOUSE, DEFENDING TRUMP
SAYING THIS IS NOT SOMETHING
THAT IS GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY.
PRESIDENT TRUMP IS SAYING THE
SAME THING, SAYING THIS IS JUST
A WASTE OF TIME.
YOU PLAYED THE CLIP OF TRUMP
SAYING THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE
JUST TRYING TO GO ON A FISHING
EXERCISE, THEY ARE JUST WANT TO
IMPEDE, BUT YOU ALSO TALKED TO
MANY REPUBLICANS THAT IN THE END
THEY FEEL LIKE THEY COULD
ACTUALLY WIN OUT ON THIS.
IT WASN’T THAT LONG AGO, AND I’M
SURE PELOSI KNOWS THE HISTORY OF
NEWT GINGRICH WHEN HE BROUGHT --
PUSHED THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS TO
IMPEACH BILL CLINTON.
IT WAS HE WHO LEFT NEWT GINGRICH
AND CLINTON WAS ABLE TO STAY.
>> JOHN ALLEN, LET’S BE REAL
HERE.
HERE. PELOSI, IT IS SAID, IS MOST
WORRIED ABOUT AROUND 30 SEATS.
CHRIS MATTHEWS HAD A
CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT FROM
SOUTHERN JERSEY ON TONIGHT WHO
SAID IN EFFECT, I DON’T SEE NO
HIGH CRIMES OR MISDEMEANORS IN
THIS.
THIS. SHE IS WORRIED ABOUT HER
MAJORITY.
MAJORITY. SHE’S WORRIED ABOUT ALL THE
SEATS THEY FLIPPED TO GET WHERE
THEY ARE THAT MADE HER THE
SPEAKER.
SPEAKER. SHE DOESN’T WANT TO FORCE ALL OF
THEM INTO REALLY ROUGH ELECTIONS
BACK HOME BECAUSE THEY TOOK A
SHOT ON THIS MOMENT AT US
DECISION.
DECISION. >> THE WORST 8:00 WOULD BE TO
PUT A VOTE ON THE FLOOR THAT AN
IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY OR ACTUALLY
IMPEACHMENT AND HAVE IT LOSE.
AND SO THERE’S A LOT OF -- SHE’S
THE ONE WHO COUNTS THE VOTES,
RIGHT?
RIGHT? SHE’S THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE,
OF COURSE, THERE ARE WHIPS IN
THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE MAJORITY
LEADER AND THEY COUNT THE VOTES
TOGETHER.
TOGETHER. BUT NANCY PELOSI KNOWS WHERE THE
VOTES ARE.
VOTES ARE. AGAIN, THERE’S NO EVIDENCE THAT
THEY HAVE THOSE VOTES THERE.
I PUT TOGETHER A VERY
SOPHISTICATED GRAPHIC HERE.
RIGHT NOW WE HAVE ABOUT 100
DEMOCRATS WHO HAVE SAID THEY’RE
FOR AN IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY.
ABOUT 135 WHO EITHER SAID
THEY’RE AGAINST IT OR HAVE NOT
SAID THEY’RE FOR AN IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY.
INQUIRY. THERE’S A LONG WAY TO GO TO GET
THERE FOR HER.
AS MELANIE WAS TALKING ABOUT,
THERE IS THAT SET OF DEMOCRATS
FOR WHOM IT IS A BAD VOTE JUST
TO TAKE THE VOTE.
THEY WILL ALIENATE EITHER THE
BASE VOTERS THEY NEED TO SHOW UP
TO WIN, OR THE SWING VOTERS THEY
NEED WHO WERE REPUBLICANS IN THE
PAST OR WHO MIGHT SPLIT THEIR
TICKET AND VOTE TRUMP AND
DEMOCRAT OTHERWISE.