﻿Mr SPEAKER: Question No 3, Metiria Turei.
METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister responsible for HNZC:
Can he rule out selling Housing NZ-owned homes
to private developers; if not, will any sale be contingent
on developers housing low-income or vulnerable tenants in those homes?
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister responsible for HNZC):
No, I cannot rule that out. Housing NZ in the last year
sold 600 houses, and probably quite a number of those were sold
to private developers. But anyone who wants to buy State houses
that have low-income and vulnerable tenants in them will need to register
as a community housing provider and meet the criteria
set out in the regulations.
Metiria Turei: How is it “perfectly logical”, as he has said,
to sell a large slice of our $18 billion State home asset
for cheap so property developers can make a profit from it?
Hon BILL ENGLISH: In the first place, Housing NZ
has an ongoing sales policy, and often it is selling houses
that we do not need or that are in the wrong place,
or some of them have just become unsuitable to be lived in
and cannot be upgraded at reasonable cost.
In respect of the transactions that are coming up
over the next 6 months or so, there is a process of testing
what the real values of those houses are. For instance,
many community providers believe those houses are not up to date
on maintenance, and therefore are overvalued when they
are valued as if they can be sold for the best price on the day
in the location that they are in.
Those are exactly the things we are having discussions about
over the next few months.
Metiria Turei: Will the Minister cancel his plans if it turns out
that property developers will buy State homes only if they
do not have to house low-income or vulnerable tenants in them,
given his statement today that the purpose of this plan
is to increase the supply of social housing and assist more people?
Hon BILL ENGLISH: Neither property developers nor community
housing providers are compelled to buy houses off the Government.
If they do not want to do that— if they do not want to manage
the tenants or own the stock, which may be the wrong size
in the wrong place—then they certainly do not have to do that.
But we are finding that there is an opportunity to work with
a whole range of groups to do a better job,
particularly in those locations where there is a high density
of State housing and there is an opportunity to redevelop
a sense of aspiration in those communities. If property developers
can supply their expertise to do that, well, we are not going
to turn them away, that is for sure, but it will have to be
lined up with people who have the skills to manage tenants
and redevelop communities.
Metiria Turei: Was the Minister suggesting earlier
that the Salvation Army was lying when it said,
when it rejected the State house sell-off programme,
that it will not improve people’s lives?
Hon BILL ENGLISH: It is the member who is misrepresenting
the Salvation Army. It did not reject the programme;
what it said was that at this stage it does not want
to participate in those particular transactions.
In fact, the Salvation Army has been an advocate for change,
and I am a bit surprised to hear the so-called radical Greens
arguing for the status quo, as if State housing in NZ
is done so perfectly well that it cannot be done any better.
That is a ridiculous position, and the only people the Greens
share it with are the Labour Party members.
Metiria Turei: Why is his Government—[Interruption]
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Can I ask the member to start again, please.
Metiria Turei: Why is his Government so hell-bent
on transferring NZ’s public resources,
assets like power companies and now our State homes,
to private business, regardless of how bad
this extremist policy is for NZers?
Hon BILL ENGLISH: In respect of State housing,
the policy that has been bad for NZers is the one that,
for 50 years, has focused on who owns the house.
The policy that is going to be much better for NZers
is one that recognises the dignity of tenants
and the aspirations they have for independence and a better life,
and that allows communities to redevelop themselves
when they have been blighted by the policies supported
by the Greens and Labour.
We are not in favour of the status quo;
we want to change it. Labour and the Greens are the last people
in NZ who think that long-term State housing is the best
we can do for Kiwi citizens. It is not. [Interruption]
Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am just waiting for the Hon Annette King.
Metiria Turei: Can the Minister confirm that the only group
to benefit from his fire sale will be property developers
as the taxpayer loses a large asset, the Government
will pay more to these property developers
through income-related rent subsidies, and vulnerable families
will still have no guarantee of a decent home?
Hon BILL ENGLISH: No, I do not agree with that.
The beneficiaries of this policy will be, first and foremost,
the tenants, who will find themselves getting
Government support that recognises their dignity
and aspirations and shows a path to independence.
Lots of other low-income families will benefit too
because the Government is the most inefficient user
of land in all our urban markets, and through this process
we will see the redevelopment and supply of that land
to the lower-income market.
That member supports planning policies that have driven poverty
in low and middle income households by driving up
the cost of housing. It is time the Greens changed their policies.
Metiria Turei: Is this not the perfect deal
for property developers—
National will give away these homes for cheap
along with guaranteed taxpayer-funded income streams
and no obligation to house needy people; if so,
how is this not the sale of the century?
Hon BILL ENGLISH: I just disagree with the member.
It would be worth her while reconsidering the role
of property developers. The Greens support
smart growth that limits the supply of land,
which in the Auckland market has virtually dried up the supply
of lower-value housing to that market. Those policies
have had more impact on inequality than any other
policy in NZ for low and middle income households.
Why the Greens support that poverty-inducing policy is beyond me.
Mr SPEAKER: Question No 4.
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