- David Spade!
- (laughing) Hey bud, how are ya?
- Wow, I've been a fan of yours since,
well, we won't go back that many years.
(energetic music)
- Buddy, I appreciate it, and it's great to talk to you,
you were riveting to see on this thing.
You were there with your coffee, leaning back.
But what a shit show, man, my god.
It must be interesting for you
because you were right up in the trenches.
- You know David, I lived in the zoo for a year
and I can't tell you what a trip it is
to look back on that year.
Dirty.
You can't imagine.
You live in a mobile home with three other people,
my camera crews, and you hear the sound,
the roaring of lions at night when you go to sleep
which terrified my little dog.
It's a very unique experience to live
inside a dirty, nasty zoo.
- Yeah, I imagine.
It didn't look like the Four Seasons,
and the weird thing is everyone there
lived there.
It had sort of a cult-y feel to it
when they wouldn't leave or come back, you know?
- Yeah, there were two separate people in the zoo,
two separate groups of people.
You have the animal trainers which were basically
runaways, misfits, alcoholics, drug addicts,
and then you had the studio crew,
we had our own trailer, which were kind of
the college educated yuppie type people,
and when you mix the two together
it was quite a blend inside especially
when you have twelve hundred wild animals
and you're getting inside the cages with them
all the time.
It was quite a menagerie.
- Right.
'Cause it started out, just to educate everyone,
you were brought in because he had
a cable show with about 80 viewers I think they said,
and you were gonna come in because
you knew the business and you were gonna
blow it up a little bit.
I don't know what the angle was
to make it "The Carol Burnett Show".
Ha, just do anything to make it more professional, right?
To make it get more viewers up.
- Yeah, well the idea was, when I first got contacted,
one day my phone blew up, email blew up.
Everybody I knew was calling, getting hold of me,
saying "You have got to go get this job,
"this guy's looking for a producer
"for his internet show," and as you said,
at the most if he ever had 80 viewers
I'd be shocked.
There was about 30 or 40 actually.
- Feels generous, yeah.
- Yeah, well it's a cable internet show.
And so I got on the phone, I talk to this guy,
and he started, "Oh, hey Rick, what the bleep
"are you doin', come on up and bleepin' meet me,"
and blah blah blah.
So I went up to meet him and I never left,
because when I first met Joe Exotic I knew
that this was a million dollar show.
This guy-- - For sure.
- I'm gonna retire on this guy.
So I said look, I will produce your little internet show
if you sign a contract and let me have a camera
behind that crew and produce a reality show
of the entire thing, and he said "Absolutely.
"Make me famous and I'll make you rich."
And that's how it goes. - Fuck yeah.
Yeah, and then in the fine print
it said your other duties are help kill Carol Baskin.
- In the fine print, I won't pay for your therapy
you're gonna need for the next five years, yeah.
- Well, I'm on your team where it sounds like
a great idea, and then you've got Eric,
the other director filming you filming them, right?
So it's like the camera filming you filming them
and here's the main guy Joe and his crazy shit.
- Exactly.
We had camera crews following camera crews
following Joe Exotic.
- It was the Florida Kardashians.
Now, the footage, the big thing obviously for you
that was, I want to joke about it but it sounds crippling,
was losing all that footage in the fire.
What were some things on there, I mean,
you obviously lost everything, but what were
some documents-- - Yeah, we lost everything
but, there was, the suspicion over the fire,
two days before the fire Joe and I
got into a very bad argument on the fact
that I owned the rights to the reality show.
I basically owned Joe Exotic.
He was not happy and he made a quick turn
and ran out of town for a few days,
supposedly for a funeral, but he locked the door
on the studio and he changed the locks
so I couldn't get in without having
the park manager come in and let me in the next morning.
Two days after that the studio burned to the ground,
and it burned so badly I had backup hard drives
with all the footage but it was in a safe,
but it melted the safe.
The fire was that hot.
There was footage in there of Joe
actually killing animals for fun.
He had, in the course of my year,
he had walked up to a tiger he didn't like
and just shot it in the head.
I tell the story about a horse that broke my heart.
This lady drove in one day and she had a horse
trailer with this old horse that was sick
and it was a skinny old, and she cried
and said "Joe, could you take care of my horse?
"I can no longer care for him,
"and you have a lot of space," and he hugged her
and "Oh yeah hun, it'll be fine.
"You leave the trailer, we'll bring the trailer
"back tomorrow, we'll put him out in the pasture
"and give him a good place."
As soon as the lady left the park
Joe said "Rick, grab your camera, start rolling,"
and I roll on him, he walks up to the horse trailer
and pulls his revolver out-- - No way.
- Shoots the horse in the head, dead, and laughs.
Just laughs.
That was Joe Exotic.
- [David] Well you know--
- Of course he fed that horse to the lions.
- Now, this is horrible because you see this
and you know Eric the director,
they probably, there's probably a lot darker stuff
and it sort of, when I've been talking
to people like you, you know,
there is a way to go so dark, but we like
the funny characters, you don't really see
these people out.
There's a fun to it and then
there's the reality to it which is terrifying.
Like at the end, I think, it's all presented
sort of like this crazy Ringling brothers group
of misfits like a sitcom, and then,
but toward the end he was poking with a stick
on the tigers and that turned off a lot of people
'cause you didn't see a lot of that,
and then he's, you ask about the drugging up of them,
and he's like, "Rick wait here, I got to go buy
"gasoline and matches," I mean, uh.
But that stuff where people started to go,
"Ooh, shit it is very real."
- You know, I find it hard to believe
that people can actually ask me,
"Rick, was it really that bad?"
Trust me, it was a hell of a lot worse
than what you saw in the documentary.
They didn't have enough time or footage
to be able to show you how bad it was.
David, I went, seriously, I got six months of therapy
after I left that zoo.
I went to see a shrink.
I went inpatient for a week at one place
in Dallas, Texas just to get my head
back on straight.
It really messed with my head,
and a lot of it had to do with my own
inner feelings.
I knew, four or five months into my stay at the zoo
that what I was doing was not right.
What I was seeing and filming, what the show
I was creating, I knew that I had sold out
my own soul so to speak, that I've really
kind of tuned out my journalistic integrity
and thrown it out a window.
But I stayed thinking, okay, I'm this far in,
I've invested everything, I'm gonna get
this show done and then I'm selling it
for a million dollars and get the hell
out of Oklahoma.
Unfortunately, a week before I had the show sold
everything burned up.
So in a way, karma kind of came back
for both Joe and I.
He's famous, but he's sitting in prison.
- I know, and this is his biggest dream,
is to be famous, and he's just sitting in there.
- Can you imagine?
The guy is famous as hell and he's in
a six by nine foot cell for the rest of his life now.
- That is tough.
I also was gonna say to you if you feel
like he's a hero or a villain, but I think
I know that answer.
- Yeah.
- It's funny, because there's so many
documentaries on Netflix that are great,
and this one sort of captured everyone.
I don't know if it's because we had to watch it
because of the quarentine, or...
- (laughing) Yeah, yeah.
You couldn't have timed it better, I'll tell you.
- They did a good job with it, like you get
introduced to people as you go and there's more
things happening, and your fire, it did feel like,
just a casual viewer going, "I'm sure Joe
"looks like he's walking around with a gas can."
- It's really strange, David, the why to me,
of course I'm in it, but it's strange that
this thing has really taken off so big.
I know everybody's in quarantine
but I mean, my wife just a little while ago
she goes, "Look Rick, there's a quiz
"on which 'Tiger King' character are you
"on Facebook."
I don't know how all this has come about
over one documentary series, especially one
that really didn't get to show you
just how bad it was.
You kind of had a little bit of a heart for the guy,
but you really didn't realize or get to see
how evil he really could be.
Not only to animals, but to people.
- Well, sure.
I mean it must be weird for you
going to the Costco in Norway
and people coming up, because,
I mean it is worldwide.
- It's happening.
Yeah, it does, here in Norway I'm literally,
I went in the other day, what, two days ago
to pick up a newspaper and of course
I'm on the front page of it, a Norwegian newspaper,
and the girl just freaked out at the counter.
Ah ah, yeah, so even on the other side of the world
people are just, everybody is "Tiger King", "Tiger King".
- For sure.
Were you around when the tiger bit his shoes
and dragged him? - [Rick] No.
No, that actually happened before I'd gotten there.
That was footage of his that he had had.
The course of my time I saw enough, believe me.
I even was attacked by some of the six month old tigers
as you saw in the documentary, and immediately
he said, "Rick, Rick, you gotta make it look
"like it was fun," you know.
While I'm bleeding from the jugular vein.
But yeah, it was a great time, ah!
- Did nobody, no one went to help him with that.
Was that because the general vibe there
was like, let him go down if he goes down?
- I think the general vibe was I hope the tiger wins.
- Yeah, that sounds like what you're saying.
- Nobody, nobody liked Joe.
The man had no friends, he really had no friends
because every time he got a friend
he either took money from them
or he screwed them over somehow.
The guy was really a loner, he really was,
and it was really sad.
I think that came out in his personality
in the documentary that the guy is really sad.
He didn't know if he was gay or not,
he kept saying how gay and redneck cowboy he was,
but in the conversations that I had personally
where he'd cry, literally lay in my shoulder and cry,
he didn't know what he was, he didn't know who he was.
He just knew he had a whole lot of money coming in
the zoo in cash that he didn't have to report
and he can buy himself these little boy toys
and his drugs and whatever else.
- Yeah, it seems most people think fame would fix things.
That's probably a general feeling.
I could tell--
- I think you can know that personally,
just as I do, fame doesn't fix anything.
It causes problems if anything.
- Rick, you're hinting that I'm a disaster
and I think everyone's onto that.
(laughing)
I can tell his barber didn't like him, I could tell.
And his hair colorist.
Do you, let me see what else--
- You know there's some people out there, David,
think you should play him in the TV series, now.
- Yeah, I've heard that.
- I've been reading online you may be
starring in "Tiger King".
- Yeah, I like to hear that, I don't know if
I could do it any justice, but I do get excited
about thinking who would be in that thing.
- If anybody could play Joe Exotic
I think you could pull it off.
I really do.
- Am I halfway there?
Who was the last person you talked to at the zoo?
Are you friends with anyone from that squad?
- I am, I've heard from virtually everybody
who worked there since all this publicity has come out.
My camera crew, of course, I've stayed in touch with them
very well over the last three, four years
since I was there.
As far as the animal trainers, I've heard from
about three of them.
Erik, who was in the documentary.
Another girl, Morgan, who was an animal trainer.
And they're all just saying, "I got my minute of fame,
"I'm so excited, did you see me?"
And I just kind of tell them, it's not really
something I'd be proud of.
- Yeah, fucking minute of fame, more than that.
Erik's the one that looks like Vince Neil
from Motley Crue for the-- - That's him.
Yeah, Erik, actually he's a good guy.
- He seems like a cool guy.
Listen, a lot of 'em, I talked to a few
of 'em like Saff and John and John,
and they all seemed like,
I won't say victim of circumstance, you know,
they're probably in there with their eyes wide open,
but sometimes when you're down on your luck
or things aren't happening or you're in rehab,
and this is a job and he's paying, you get caught up
in something and you turn a blind eye.
But it sounds a little rougher than we all
even imagine in there.
- Well, you know, the thing is too,
like I said, Joe would actually go
to the bus station to pick up people,
runaways and just misfits, to bring 'em in and work.
There was a real kind of a hard to explain
magnetic feel when you have a big cat
in your hands. - Yeah yeah yeah, sure.
- When you're able to hold a tiger,
you get, there's a big ego thing to it,
a power trip, and for someone down on their luck
or trying to get clean or whatever,
you get them thrown in where you get
to play with tigers, all of a sudden
you're like Superman.
You're not exactly ready for that.
- I feel that when I walk around with my Emmy
nomination.
(laughing)
Let me see.
- Can I borrow that Emmy?
I'd like to walk around Norway with that for a while.
- You're already killing it out there.
Always wear the hat, that's gonna help ya.
I was going to ask you one more thing,
oh, I was going to say was there a bloopers reel?
But I feel like this whole documentary
was a bloopers reel. (laughing)
- You know what, the whole documentary
was a blooper, and this is the after effect,
doing these interviews.
This is god coming back to get me again.
- Well, listen, you were part of it
but you're talking about it, and I think
you got in there to film something interesting
and once you're in it you're in it.
It's hard.
I mean, not making excuses, and you don't sound
like you are, you did what you did and--
- I made my apologies and, you know,
I've gotta meet god one day and he'll say
"Rick, I'd let you in if it weren't for 'Tiger King'".
(laughing)
- Right.
Hopefully god isn't standing there with Carol Baskin.
Did you ever try that Walmart pizza
with the expired meat?
- [Rick] You know what?
Quite honestly I did eat a steak one time
that they had made, but I didn't know
that they'd gotten it off the Walmart truck.
When we used to see them pull in
with all this stuff from Walmart, twice a week
the truck came in, and the animal trainers,
they only got paid $100 a week each
so they would be in the pile with all this
expired meat going "Hey, I got sausages!
"Hey, I got steak!"
I actually did eat one of the steaks one time,
but to be honest with you, it wasn't that bad,
but it had only been two days expired, so.
- Oh Jesus.
I mean, it's kind of funny but those people
are starving, I mean they need food,
they're not getting paid. - They were starving.
- It's not funny, I get it. - They were starving and
they needed that food, they really did.
Without that food, honestly, I don't think
people would've survived.
And in the wintertime it was even worse
because it was so cold and there was no store
anywhere around.
The zoo's in the middle of bumfuck Oklahoma,
let's be real, you know?
- Yeah, I just don't want to go to catering
on mystery meat night because it could be
really anything from that whole place.
- Been at the zoo, man.
You would've livened it up a little bit, David.
We shoulda had you there, you coulda been
Joe Exotic's alter ego.
The nice one.
- Yeah, you know, I think zoos in general
are turning the tide where it was always fun
and you sort of didn't want to know
what goes on backstage, and like circuses,
but they're slowly disappearing because
it's just too, the reality's too rough.
- Yeah, I think the thing is, especially the roadside zoos,
but the day of the zoos and the day
of the circuses are pretty much coming to an end.
Ringling brothers stopped using the elephants, what,
five, six years ago?
I think the day is coming where we're gonna
be able to see these animals in eight K video,
but not behind the bars stuck in a little cage.
- Yeah, I think that's what everyone's hoping for.
But thanks for talking to me buddy,
I know you're staying up late for me
and I appreciate it.
- Not a problem, David.
Really enjoyed it.
- All right, I'll talk to you soon.
- Take care, buddy.
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