We are live
outside the New York City courthouse
where Donald Trump's first
criminal trial is under way.
Moments ago,
they just took a break for lunch.
They have been inside that courtroom
for several hours,
but no actual jurors have yet
been brought inside the room as they are
still arguing over stuff
that happens before
the trial gets officially underway.
What evidence can be argued
whether or not Donald Trump has been
has violated his gag order?
As you know,
we've put a lot of time outside
this Manhattan
courthouse where Donald Trump
is going to be spending the next six
to eight weeks.
Today
is especially loud, as you can hear us on
his supporters are out here.
Some of his detractors
are over to our left.
Obviously, a lot of members of the media
as this is fueled intense coverage,
given its historic nature,
it is the first criminal trial
of a former president to ever be held.
So we are watching all of this.
And, Paula, you know,
right before we got into this break,
what prosecutors are asking
the judge to do here
is to find Donald Trump
for violating his gag order.
That's right.
They're pointing to three posts
that he has made,
at least one of which he refers
to as Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen,
potentially two key witnesses
in this case as, quote, sleaze backs.
And here,
the prosecutors are asking for him
to be fined $1,000 for each post and also
asking the judge
to warn Trump, remind him
that if he continues to violate
this gag order,
he could be held in contempt.
Now, the judge has not yet
ruled on this motion.
And, of course, we are in a break.
But this is going to be an issue
that will likely come up
pretty much every day.
And we are joined outside
this courthouse by Judge Jill
Cotton Visor,
a former New York state
Supreme Court justice
who is also friends with Judge Mershon.
That is the judge overseeing
this case that Trump has tried
unsuccessfully time and time and
time and time again
to recuse himself from this case.
And, Judge, it's great to have you here,
especially just given your knowledge of
Judge Mershon,
because he has,
you know,
intense impact on shaping
what this is going to look like.
And right now, on day
one, he's been faced with this decision.
Did Donald Trump violate this gag order
and how does he respond?
If so,
he's deciding clearly after Brady,
after the lunch break.
How do you think he's weighing this?
Well, I think that Juan
Rashan is in a great position
to be
the judge in this particular case
because of the depth of his experience.
People look at the Trump case
very carefully and under a microscope
because for obvious reasons,
but it is quite loud here.
But obviously,
Ron Rashawn
for 15 years has handled
difficult defendants before,
and they're dealt with defendants
who have acted out in courtrooms.
Defendants who are alleged
murderers, rapists.
This is what we do.
It is the landscape in which we toil.
So I don't think this is
a huge lift for Juan Mershon,
for Judge Mershon.
I do think, however, that
if it were me, certainly
I would warn the defendant.
Again, doing a contempt proceeding
at this point will slow everything down.
It doesn't really benefit anyone.
I have to get your perspective
on something that that also Trump
has just been arguing
that he wants to do,
which is
when there are those sidebars
between the judge and the prosecutors
and Trump's defense team.
Trump wants to be able
to approach the bench.
How unusual is that?
That's entirely unusual.
I would never allow it.
The defendant
in any criminal case
is entitled to hear
any of those sidebar conversations
if they involve issues for which
the defendant could give input.
So if it's strictly legal,
the defendant has no right to be there.
But if it's anything
with a factual basis,
the defendant does have a right
to be there.
And logistically,
I think that's a challenge
for a Judge Mershon
to make sure that the defendant
has that opportunity,
if it means clearing the courtroom
or going in the back, as we often do.
Logistically, again, it's hard here
because you have Secret Service, you have
court officers
and a lot of lawyers.
So that
makes it a little more complicated.
What happened right before this
this break happened?
And I should note just
you were mentioning how loud it is here.
I mean,
it is
kind of a circus down here,
a really the most generous way
to describe it.
It's always a little bit crazy
that I've spent a lot of time down here
today. Feels especially more so.
I mean,
some of his former supporters
are just circling the courthouse really
as he is inside.
He just left without speaking.
But one thing the judge was just doing
was reading Trump, his rights
and telling him that
if he disrupt this trial,
that the judge has the right
to exclude him
and even potentially jail him
if that happens.
What we have to
what's the threshold
for something like that?
Well, that's a good question.
Every defendant has a right
to be present at their own trial.
That right is fundamental,
but it is not absolute.
In other words,
if a defendant, by their conduct,
cannot follow the rules of the courtroom,
cannot follow the rules of the staff
in the courtroom,
speaks out over the judge
that a defendant can forfeit their
right to be present.
And if the defendant continues to
do that,
I would say he would find
himself in a bit of an a bit of trouble.
Judge Mershon
is not going to tolerate it.
He is a consummate professional.
He is a fair and just jurist.
And he will do everything he can
to ensure
that the defendant
gets a fair trial
to which he is entitled.
And if that includes
taking him out of the courtroom
because he
you know,
he destroys the process or infects it
deleterious, Lee, he will do that.
And warning
the defendant is the only standard.
If the defendant knows and persists,
he can be waltz out
not to return he can be jailed, too.
We'll see if that happens.
How would you describe
how Judge Marshawn is in the courtroom?
You know, if you're
we don't have cameras in there,
so we can't actually
see what it looks like.
We just in sketches, pictures.
We get our dispatches from our team.
How does that
would you describe it
to someone who's sitting at home
and is curious
what it's actually like in the room
I would say that is
it's probably
not quite the
circus in there that it is out here.
There's a certain amount of decorum
that's required
There's a lot of people in that courtroom
and a lot of static, I'm sure.
But when the judge is on the bench
and speaking,
everyone needs to
take notice and pay attention.
When the jurors walk in,
they will show the appropriate respect
for the courtroom.
Everyone needs to do that.
It's much like something
that you would see on TV that's very,
you know, a
lot of people in the jury box,
a lot of people in the courtroom
and everyone in their position.
Judge Mershon is not a hothead.
He's not a screamer.
He is, as I said, a professional.
He takes this very seriously.
I don't think he's going
home, losing
sleep at night over this case.
I just don't
I'm sure he's focused on it
because there's a lot of work involved
and a lot of scrutiny.
But he handles a lot tougher defense.
Yeah, I have confidence in him.
The Trump team tried to get him
bounced from this
because he said it was intense
preparation.
Clearly,
we all know that that is one thing
that everyone can agree on.
Judge Conrad's are great to have you
joining us here outside the courthouse.
This is so important is now
because this is
this is way
we were talking about before about
what's going to happen with this judge,
the gag order.
This is before a jury is impaneled.
They're obviously on top of mind.
About what impact it could have on them.
Will they be threatened
or will they be intimidated
in some way or insulted?
This is one of the first moments of truth
for Judge Mershon, who,
of course, will be front and center
throughout this trial.
Now, Judge Mershon was a prosecutor
long ago in his career.
He's been a judge in New York
for 17 years now.
He's generally quite widely respected.
He's described by people
who've appeared in front of him
as efficient and fair
and in charge of his courtroom.
Now, before this, he was known.
Yeah, he is not unknown,
nor are they unknown to him,
presided over
a trial of the Trump
Organization for Tax Fraud,
separate issue,
but he knows a lot of the players here,
and he presided over the prosecution
of Allen Weisselberg,
who pled guilty in that case.
Now, of course,
the judge as recently as this morning
has denied various motions
by Donald Trump
to recuse himself,
to remove himself
off the case based on his daughter's
political activity.
And as you said,
the judge has issued this limited
gag order
that Donald Trump
we discussed at the beginning of the show
appears to have violated
over the weekend.
And now the D.A.
is asking the judge
to take action on that.
One thing that is a possibility
for the average defendant.
If you violate the orders of release
or of course, a gag order
could be a step back.
Not likely to happen here at all.
Yeah, he's
not going to get locked up for that back,
but he may get he may get fined.
Let's see, that's
now we have the defense, though,
and who's on this team?
This is important.
They're they're making these motions.
You've worked with Todd Blanchard.
Todd Blanton was a colleague of mine
for several years, federal prosecutor
in the Southern District of New York.
He was in charge
of the violent crimes unit,
very experienced trial lawyer.
This is a challenge
unlike one he's seen before.
And he'll be aided by Susan Nichols,
who is a very experience,
also long ago a prosecutor,
but a very well-known, very respected
defense lawyer, by the way.
Put aside
your notions of the sort of flamboyant
Trump lawyers of the past.
This is no Rudy.
This is no Sidney Powell.
They're both experienced
courtroom operators.
They're tacticians.
Todd,
if anything is soft spoken,
it's sort of understated.
So he doesn't fit
the classic mold of the Trump
defense attorney.
Remind people, though, in terms of
who is going to lead
in the sense of does
Trump direct his attorneys
or do the attorneys
direct them on
issues, a fact or legal strategy
Well, we say attorneys can only advise.
Right. You can't for.
So that will be a dynamic
that will be watching throughout.
We'll talk about who's
actually going to prosecute this case.
Obviously, Alvin Bragg is a D.A.
He himself will not argue this case,
which is very typical. Yeah.
Just to show you
what a small world that is.
I also worked with Alvin Bragg
at the Southern District of New York, as
did Todd Blanch. So they know each other.
They were colleagues before
Alvin Bragg is the district attorney
took office in early 20, 22.
He will not be trying
the case will probably show up
in the courtroom to support his team.
His team is extraordinarily experienced
in the courtroom.
Susan Hopfinger,
will be leading the charge
for the DA's office.
She has been in that office
for over 25 years.
Tried many,
many cases
that Michelangelo,
though, has been an issue for this
Trump team.
Yet when you hear
Donald Trump wrongly
say this is a Biden prosecution,
what he's pointing to,
and it's an incredibly weak argument
is that Matthew Colangelo was at DOJ
a few years ago,
but there is no evidence,
no known connection
between the Biden administration
in this case.