>>> WELCOME BACK TO "VELSHI AND RUEHL."
RUEHL." A KEY HEARING ON CAPITOL HILL
APPEARING TO DRAW A DEEPER
DIVIDE BETWEEN TRUMP AND THE
INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY.
INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY. >> THE NATION’S TOP INTELLIGENCE
CHIEF CONTRADICTED PRESIDENT
TRUMP.
TRUMP. I’M GOING TO SAY THAT ONE MORE
TIME.
TIME. >> CHIEFS, IN FACT.
>> CHIEFS CONTRADICTED OUR OWN
PRESIDENT SEVERAL TIMES DURING
TODAY’S SENATE INTELLIGENCE
COMMITTEE HEARING WHICH JUST
RESUMED BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.
>> NOW THIS HAPPENED LAST YEAR
AS WELL.
AS WELL. THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL
INTELLIGENCE DAN COATES TOLD THE
SENATORS NORTH KOREA WAS
UNLIKELY TO GIVE UP ITS NUCLEAR
WEAPONS.
WEAPONS. IN JUNE, PRESIDENT TRUMP
DECLARED THE NORTH WAS NO LONGER
A NUCLEAR THREAT.
COATES ALSO DISPUTED TRUMP’S
CLAIM THAT ISIS HAS BEEN
DEFEATED, SAYING THE GROUP WAS
NEARING DEFEAT IN IRAQ BUT IS
INTENT ON RESURGING AND COMMANDS
THOUSANDS OF FIGHTERS, IF NOT
TERRITORY.
TERRITORY. >> THOUSANDS OF FIGHTERS?
>> YES.
>> YES. >> REMEMBER, IT WAS JUST BEFORE
CHRISTMAS THAT THE WHITE HOUSE
PUT TOGETHER THAT VIDEO WHEN THE
PRESIDENT WAS SPEAKING AND
ANNOUNCING THAT ISIS HAS BEEN
DEFEATED.
DEFEATED. THAT HAS BEEN DIRECTLY REFUTED
BY DAN COATES.
>> COATES ALSO SAID IRAN WAS NOT
ENGAGED IN ANY KEY NUCLEAR
WEAPONS DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY.
PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS CLAIMED THAT
IF THE IRAN DEAL REMAINED IN
PLACE, THE COUNTRY WOULD BE ON
THE CUSP OF ACQUIRING THE
WORLD’S MOST DANGEROUS WEAPONS.
ONE WONDERS HOW LONG COATES GET
TO KEEP HIS JOB WHEN HE COUNTERS
THE PRESIDENT.
THE PRESIDENT. JOINING US, BARRY McCAFFREYcCAFF
ALSO, BILL NEELY, OUR CHIEF
GLOBAL CORRESPONDENT FOR NBC
NEWS.
NEWS. GOOD TO SEE YOU IN REAL LIFE,
BILL.
BILL. >> IN PERSON.
>> IN PERSON.
>> I’D LOVE TO START WITH THIS,
HELP US UNDERSTAND AND I HATE TO
SAY UNPRECEDENTED, BUT HOW
UNUSUAL IS IT?
WE CAN SIT HERE WITH OUR MOUTHS
GAPING OPEN, SAYING HOW COULD
YOU POSSIBLY HAVE DAN COATES
REFUTING WHAT THE PRESIDENT
SAYS?
SAYS? IS THIS NORMAL?
>> GENERAL McCAFFREY?
>> OH, YES, OBVIOUSLY, WE’RE
ALMOST IN A FANTASY LAND
SITUATION.
SITUATION. THE REACTION I HAVE IS TO BE
ENORMOUSLY PROUD OF THE
INTEGRITY AND THE
SELF-DISCIPLINE AND THE
INDEPENDENT
INDEPENDENT INDEPENDENT, INDEPENDENCE OF ALL
OF THESE SENIOR LEADERS TO
INCLUDE THE SENIOR DIRECTOR OF
THE CIA.
THE CIA. THEY SWORE AN OATH TO THE
CONSTITUTION.
CONSTITUTION. NOT TO A PERSON OR A PARTY.
AND SO I THINK WE OUGHT TO BE
ENORMOUSLY REASSURED THAT THEY
ARE STEPPING UP OBJECTIVELY TO
TALKING ABOUT THREATS TO THE
UNITED STATES.
UNITED STATES. YOU KNOW, FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP,
TO COME HOME AND SAY THAT THE
NORTH KOREAN NUCLEAR THREAT IN
PARTICULAR IS NOW GONE BECAUSE
HE MEETS WITH THIS BRUTAL DESPOT
FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS IS
LITERALLY LAUGHABLE.
LITERALLY LAUGHABLE. WHAT IS HE DOING?
SECOND THOUGHT, BOTH OF YOU,
UNPRECEDENTED IN THE HISTORY OF
THE UNITED STATES.
WHY IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE
UNITED STATES CONCEALING HIS
INTERACTIONS WITH PUTIN FROM THE
OFFICIALS OF HIS OWN GOVERNMENT?
I MEAN, IT’S JUST UNBELIEVABLE.
WHAT IS GOING ON?
IT’S A ROGUE PRESIDENCY.
>> BILL, THE -- DAN COATES
SEEMED TO BE SUGGESTING IN
THIS -- ON THIS FRONT THAT THE
THREAT FROM NORTH KOREA HASN’T
DIMINISHED.
DIMINISHED. PRESIDENT TRUMP CONSTANTLY TALKS
ABOUT THE THREAT FROM IRAN
HAVING INCREASED AND THE THREAT
FROM NORTH KOREA HAVING
DIMINISHED.
DIMINISHED. AND DAN COATES SAID ENTIRELY THE
OPPOSITE.
OPPOSITE. WE SHOULDN’T EXPECT NORTH KOREA
IS GOING TO STOP PRODUCING
NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
NUCLEAR WEAPONS. >> IN SOME RESPECTS, TO FOLLOW
ON McCAFFREY, WE SHOULDN’T BE
SURPRISED BY ANY OF THIS.
WHY ARE WE SURPRISED THAT THE
INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY DISAGREES
WITH THE PRESIDENT AND THE
PRESIDENT DISAGROS WITH THE
INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY?
INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY? IT’S BEEN A THEY’LLME OF HIS
PRESIDENCY.
PRESIDENCY. WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID ISIS
HAS BEEN DEFEATED, SAID NO,
SCREAMING, JUST LIKE GEORGE BUSH
SAYING MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
OF COURSE MISSION WASN’T
ACCOMPLISHED.
ACCOMPLISHED. ISIS WAS NOT DEFEATED.
THERE WAS A BOMB ATTACK IN THE
PHILIPPINES OVER THE WEEKEND.
IT KILLED 20 PEOPLE AT A
CATHEDRAL CLAIMED BY, GUESS WHO,
ISIS.
ISIS. ISIS HAS BRANCHES IN THE
PHILIPPINES.
PHILIPPINES. IT WILL -- THERE IS THE LAST
FIGHT NOW IN SYRIA.
ISIS HAS TWO VILLAGES LEFT OF
THE CALIPHATE.
THE CALIPHATE. ISIS HAS BEEN PREPARING FOR
YEARS FOR THE END OF THE
CALIPHATE.
CALIPHATE. THE QUESTION IS WHAT WILL THEY
MORPH INTO?
MORPH INTO? AL QAEDA MORPHED INTO ISIS.
WHAT WILL ISIS MORPH INTO?
WILL WE HAVE ATTACKS IN PARIS IN
BRUSSELS, IN THE UNITED STATES?
SO WE NOW ISIS -- THE
CALIPHATE’S GONE.
CALIPHATE’S GONE. IT’S NOT DEFEATED.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> NORTH KOREA, I MEAN, MY
VISITS TO NORTH KOREA ON EVERY
OCCASION, EVERY OFFICIAL SAID WE
WILL NEVER GIVE UP NUCLEAR
WEAPONS BECAUSE IT’S -- THE
SUBTEXT WAS IT’S PART OF OUR
REGIME’S SURVIVAL STRATEGY.
>> WITHOUT A DOUBT.
>> WITHOUT A DOUBT.
>> WE DON’T NEED THEIR EXPORTS.
>> ONE OTHER INTERESTING POINT
IS MEXICO AND THE WALL, WHICH
PRESIDENT TRUMP SEES AS A KEY
NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT, WASN’T
MENTIONED IN THIS REPORT UNTIL
PAGE 18.
PAGE 18. >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> HALFWAY THROUGH WAS THE FIRST
MENTION OF MEXICO.
SO CLEARLY THERE IS A DISPARITY
HERE BETWEEN WHAT’S IN THE
PRESIDENT’S MIND AND THE
INTELLIGENCE CHIEFS.
INTELLIGENCE CHIEFS. >> IN MENTIONING MEXICO, THEY
DID NOT CALL IT A NATIONAL
SECURITY THREAT.
SECURITY THREAT. LET’S TALK ABOUT INTERFERENCE.
GENERAL, THE HEARING OPENED WITH
DAN COATES REVEALING THAT RUSSIA
AND CHINA WILL SEEK TO INTERFERE
IN THE 2020 ELECTION.
TO ME, THIS WAS THE SCARIT
PART.
PART. HE SPECIFICALLY SAID THE TWO
NATIONS ARE MORE ALIGNED TODAY
THAN AT ANY POINT --
>> THIS IS INCREDIBLE.
>> SINCE THE MID-1950s.
HOW SIGNIFICANT IS THAT?
>> PRETTY SIGNIFICANT.
THE CYBER WARFARE THAT’S GOING
ON IN THE GLOBAL COMMUNITY NOW
IS ONE OF THE TOP THREATS.
I VIEW IT AS THE EQUIVALENT OF
WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.
A LOT OF IT, FROM THE
ORGANIZERED STATES LIKE THE
RUSSIANS TENDS TO BE POLITICAL
INTERFERENCE OR COMMERCIAL
ESPIONAGE.
ESPIONAGE. BUT THEY’RE ALSO ACTIVELY TRYING
TO GAIN A POSTURE WHERE THEY CAN
CONTROL IN THE EVENT OF WAR
ELECTRICAL GRIDS AND SUBWAY
SYSTEMS AND MEDICAL SYSTEMS.
SO IT’S A MAJOR THREAT.
WE DO NOT HAVE A COHERENT U.S.
NATIONAL STRATEGY TO FACE THIS
THREAT.
THREAT. WE’RE NOT SPENDING ENOUGH MONEY
ON IT.
ON IT. THE FINAL SHOCKING THING TO ME,
FOR REASONS HE MUST BE PRIVATELY
AWARE OF, IS APPARENTLY UNDER
THE SWAY OF MR. PUTIN AND WILL
NOT AUTHORIZE AGGRESSIVE
COUNTERMEASURES AGAINST THE
RUSSIANS.
RUSSIANS. >> SO THIS IS INTERESTING POINT.
BECAUSE AT ONE POINT DEMOCRATIC
SENATOR -- A DEMOCRATIC SENATOR
ASKED -- IT WAS WYDEN.
HE ASKED THE CIA DIRECTOR GINA
HASPEL AND DNI COATES ABOUT THE
REPORTS OF THE PRIVATE
TRUMP/PUTIN MEETINGS.
TRUMP/PUTIN MEETINGS. THE RESPONSE IS INTERESTING.
>> DONALD TRUMP MET PRIVATELY
WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN AND NO ONE
IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAS THE
FULL STORY ABOUT WHAT WAS
DISCUSSED.
DISCUSSED. DIRECTOR HASPEL AND DIRECTOR
COATES, WOULD THIS PUT YOU IN A
DISADVANTAGE POSITION IN TERMS
OF UNDERSTANDING RUSSIA’S
EFFORTS TO ADVANCE ITS AGENDA
AGAINST THE UNITED STATES?
>> THIS IS A SENSITIVE ISSUE.
AN ISSUE WE OUGHT TO TALK ABOUT
THIS AFTERNOON.
THIS AFTERNOON. LOOK FORWARD TO DISCUSSING THAT
IN A CLOSED SESSION.
>> OKAY.
>> OKAY. SO THAT’S INTERESTING.
THAT WASN’T A STRAIGHT UP NO
ANSWER.
ANSWER. THAT WAS A WE’LL DISCUSS THIS IN
A CLOSED SESSION THIS AFTERNOON.
IT WAS A SIMPLE QUESTION, BILL.
DOES THE PRESIDENT’S
CONVERSATIONS WITH THESE -- WITH
PUTIN NOT WITNESSED BY ANYBODY
ELSE, WITHOUT AN AMBASSADOR,
WITHOUT A, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT
SOMEBODY ELSE IN THE ROOM,
INTERPRETER, TRANSLATORS, PUT
U.S. INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES AT A
DISADVANTAGE?
DISADVANTAGE? NO WOULD HAVE BEEN THE BEST
ANSWER.
ANSWER. >> IT’S FAIR IT WOULD HAVE A
COMPLICATED ANSWER.
COMPLICATED ANSWER. >> WHY?
>> WHY? WHAT ANSWER COULD THERE BE THAT
WE CAN’T HEAR?
DOES IT PUT YOU AT A
DISADVANTAGE?
DISADVANTAGE? DOES IT PUT US AT A
DISADVANTAGE?
DISADVANTAGE? PRESIDENT TRUMP MEETS WITH --
>> OKAY, BILL.
AND YOU REALLY THINK THEY’RE
GOING TO SAY THERE, YEP, WHAT
THE PRESIDENT DID PUT US AT A
DISADVANTAGE?
DISADVANTAGE? THEY’RE SAYING WE’D LIKE TO GIVE
YOU THE APPROPRIATE ANSWER.
WE’RE FOOT GOING TO DO IT ON A
PUBLIC STAGE.
PUBLIC STAGE. >> MY MIND JUST WENT BACK TO
THAT EXTRAORDINARY NEWS
CONFERENCE BETWEEN PRESIDENT
TRUMP AND PUTIN.
I WAS PART OF THE PRESS CORPS
THERE.
THERE. >> IN HELSINKI?
>> THERE’S A LOT ABOUT HELSINKI
AND HIS PREVIOUS --
>> OR HAMBURG --
>> THAT WE DON’T KNOW AND WE MAY
NEVER KNOW BECAUSE THE ONLY
PEOPLE THERE WERE THE
TRANSLATORS AND THEY’RE NOT
GOING TO SAY WHAT WAS IN
PRESIDENT TRUMP’S LETTER TO KIM
JONG-UN THAT MADE HIM SO
HAPPY --
HAPPY -- >> I LIKE CHEESEBURGERS.
AND ELTON JOHN.
>> WE DON’T KNOW.
WELL, WE DO KNOW, JUST GOING
BACK TO RUSSIA, ACTUALLY WHAT WE
DO KNOW IS THE NEXT ELECTION UP
IN THE WEST, ARE THEY
EUROPEANWIDE ELECTIONS IN MAY?
AND ALREADY WE KNOW RUSSIA IS
INTERESTING FEARING ALREADY.
BECAUSE IT CAN SEE THE RISE OF
POPULISM IN EUROPE.
IT CAN SEE THE DISRUPTION THAT
CAN BE CAUSED.
YOU LOOK AT THE YELLOW VESTS IN
FRANCE.
FRANCE. YOU LOOK AT THE BREXETTE
DISASTER.
DISASTER. IT’S IN RUSSIA’S INTEREST TO
INTERFERE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
FOR CHINA’S INTERESTS AND
RUSSIAN’S INTERESTS ALIGN, WHY
WOULDN’T THEY DO MALIGN THINGS
WITH REGARD TO THE UNITED
STATES?
STATES? GENERAL McCAFFREY WILL KNOW A
LOT MORE ABOUT THIS THAN I.
AGAIN, YOU KNOW, NOT SURPRISING
THAT CHINA AND RUSSIA ARE
REGARDED AS CHINA THE LONG-TERM
THREAT, RUSSIA, THE DISRUPTER
THREAT.
THREAT. >> SURE.
>> SURE. >> ALI, LET ME ADD A THOUGHT.
>> YES, GO AHEAD.
>> IF I MAY.
WHAT MR. TRUMP OUGHT TO FEAR THE
MOST IS THAT THE RUSSIANS IN
PARTICULAR EVENTUALLY WILL USE
THEIR VERSION IN THE EVENTS
AGAINST THEM.
AGAINST THEM. THEY MAY WAIT UNTIL HE’S OUT OF
OFFICE JUST TO DISCREDIT THE
U.S. POLITICAL SYSTEM.
SO MR. TRUMP WILL NEVER BE SAVED
FROM THE GRU.