Speaker 1: Let's go next to where do we want to go?
There are so many people who want to be on.
Let's go to Saigon.
Mike.
Saigon.
Mike, you're next.
Saigon.
MC You're unmuted, but I'm wondering if you have the wrong audio device selected.
And last chance for Saigon, Mike, to fix your audio.
All right.
That's too bad.
Saigon.
Mike is gone.
Let's go next to Steve from Chicago.
Steve, welcome.
Speaker 4: Hey, Dave, you can hear me?
Speaker 1: Yes, I can.
Speaker 4: Yes.
So I was wondering, I know you've been kind of talking about you brought Joe Rogan a little
bit ago and he said when he brought up his likening for two Santas and you kind of brought
up, he may be he doesn't really know what he's talking about.
But do you think the possibility maybe that he sees more online, even though he is a progressive,
he seems more aligned with some of the stuff that two Santas is doing and isn't really
happy with some of the like Democratic presidents.
Who do you like?
What?
Biden.
Speaker 1: I know that sounds weird to me.
I mean, if if Rogan is more progressive, he couldn't possibly like what DeSantis is doing,
if he knows what DeSantis is doing.
Speaker 4: But I problem saying is that the way that the he he can so be progressive but
not like that things that the Democrat Party is going too far and that the Sanders would
be able to the Sanders and people like this and this might isn't as far right as they're
actually saying or as extreme.
Speaker 1: Well I mean, you're saying is it possible that something Rogan hasn't said
is what's in his head?
And it's like, I guess so.
But we have no reason to think that that's what Rogan thinks.
It's sort of like mind reading, you know?
Speaker 4: No, no.
Like, I guess an example for me is that the whole though, the way that the progressive
movement has been going with trying to push like puberty brock blockers on children and
the trans athletes, which is like I know a subject that Joe Rogan opposes what the way
that's going and that someone maybe on the right that would be more open to his view
of like how the that that should be played.
Speaker 1: I'm not aware of the movement among progressives to push puberty blockers on kids.
Can you tell me more about that?
Speaker 4: Wasn't the health secretary really out there saying that the kids should be able
to transition and use puberty blockers if they feel like they're in the wrong body?
Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
Because first you said that there were there was a movement pushing puberty blockers on
kids.
It sounds like what you're saying is one Biden administration official said that for the
tiny percentage of people in that situation and the subsection within that that wants
to pursue such drugs, that it should be possible.
Is that what you're what you actually meant?
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 1: The first thing you said was that progressives are pushing puberty blockers
on kids.
But then your example wasn't that was it?
Speaker 4: I mean, are they pushing the idea of using puberty blockers on kids?
Do you want to be more straightforward about it?
Speaker 1: Well, when you say that, it sounds like you're saying that there's a movement
to just convince children to take puberty blockers.
But there isn't any movement like that, is there?
It seems there's a movement there.
Speaker 4: I would I would say so.
Speaker 1: Okay.
So who is going around saying, hey, what we want is we want more kids to take puberty
blockers.
Who's saying that?
Speaker 4: The Biden administration for kids who want to take puberty blockers.
Speaker 1: Oh, but so what you're saying is the Biden administration has a position that
in certain situations for the tiny percentage of kids who identify as being in the wrong
body, for lack of a better term, and for whom medical professionals believe it would be
appropriate to make that decision, it should be a decision they are allowed to make.
Right.
Because that that's very different than they are pushing puberty blockers on kids.
Speaker 4: I would say anyway, like, I guess the.
Speaker 1: Well, let me give you an example to make it really clear.
Speaker 4: Oh, I guess let me let me let me let me clarify, I guess for my stock where
you get your examples.
Let me interrupt you just so you can do your comeback.
So I guess from Joe Rogan's perspective, is that the kid by a kid that age, let's just
say five, six, younger than that, we they can't they can't enter into contracts.
They can't do all their stuff because they don't have the mental capacity to actually
understand.
Yeah.
They maybe would be in the wrong body or not on the wrong body or anything like that.
And I'm not talking about adults or anything.
I'm talking about kids.
Got it.
That it would be in the harmful effects they could have on TV blockers with them in their
mind, not being able to fully understand what's going on.
Speaker 1: Would you apply that same logic to children getting vaccines where the kids
can't actually consent themselves?
The parents are doing it for them and they don't understand the full impact of those.
And once you do it, you can't undo the fact that you've gotten a vaccine.
Would you apply the same standard to the vaccines?
I'm curious.
Speaker 4: Vaccines.
It's very interesting.
No, I guess I. I wouldn't, but I guess I would.
I guess.
I guess it is.
I guess I'm going back to like, do kids actually understand?
I'm having a kick out of seeing a more of a vaccine that if a parent talks about them,
talks about it to them.
Speaker 1: So it sounds like you're saying it's actually not about whether the kids can
or can't sign contracts or are of legal age.
It's whether they can understand a concept based on what their parents tell them.
That's the standard you're now laying out.
Speaker 4: No, I'm not.
I'm not saying there's a standard saying that.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm asking what is causing.
Speaker 4: Oh, my standard is right.
I don't think I don't think kids understand exactly what they're doing with the puberty
blockers and more of the long term effects they could have on them versus like a vaccine,
I guess.
Which is which is different.
I mean, okay.
Speaker 1: But like in a few in a few weeks, my daughter will be due for vaccines.
She can't understand them.
And no matter how I explain it to her, she's not going to understand them.
By your standard about understanding, I shouldn't be allowed to get her vaccinated.
Right.
Speaker 4: I'm not saying I'm not saying I don't think she be allowed to get her vaccinated.
Right.
Speaker 1: What I'm asking you is you set the standard that makes vaccines different
than puberty blockers is that kids better understand vaccines rather than their understanding
of puberty blockers.
I just explained my daughter doesn't understand vaccines at all.
Sure.
By your standard, she should not.
I should not be able to get her vaccinated in a couple of weeks based on your standard.
Speaker 4: I didn't say that was the standard of mind.
Speaker 1: I was you know, I literally asked you, what's your standard?
And you said, that's your standard.
My standard is they can't understand it.
Speaker 4: Not on not on vaccines, I guess.
I say I was saying my understanding would be able to explain vaccines versus puberty
blockers and the whole and all those side effects move forward, transitioning and everything
like that.
I mean, okay, I, I'm but again, I'm basically I'm, I was my basic question is my basic my
basic going back to the Joe Rogan part was yeah more under and I'm not I guess I don't
know why I guess my pushing is melatonin.
They're just like going up and giving up kids puberty blockers.
But more of the emphasis on transitioning younger kids when it when the long term effects,
they probably won't be able to understand what's actually going on with their body.
Speaker 1: And got it.
So let's so let's say let's now drill down to what we are talking about.
So you're not saying that they are.
Let's go.
Just follow me step by step.
You're not saying anyone is forcing puberty blockers physically into children, right?
You're not making the claim anybody is doing that?
Speaker 4: No.
If I came across that way, that's not.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm not saying it.
I'm just I'm.
Let me clarify.
So you're not saying anyone is forcibly being given puberty blockers?
Good.
Second, is there any campaign to go out and say, hey, kids, consider puberty blockers?
It's cool.
Like, is there a PR campaign or you're saying there isn't that either?
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say it was a PR campaign till like say it's cool, but I think there's
a campaign strategy of movement of like putting more of a spotlight on.
For younger.
For younger kids, basically you in with doctors, schools within the administration, everything.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that there are schools where they do presentations and then
go, hey, kids, if you're not feeling good about your body, how about puberty blockers?
That's happening somewhere.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say that they would say fewer bloggers in there, but I'd say within
the schools they're trying they're more or less, I guess, going into like gender identity
and sexuality, everything like that, which would which would bring the conversation moving
towards that.
Speaker 1: Do you have any evidence that in schools where they talk about the fact that
trans people exist, they're pushing puberty blockers?
Is there a single example of such a school?
Speaker 4: I mean, wait, do like that example where they're mentioning puberty blockers
and like the like the teacher said or puberty blockers.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Where they're saying not when when issues of gender are taught in schools where puberty
blockers are being talked about by teachers and presented as something to pursue or some.
You said at the beginning of the call, you said pushing.
The word was pushing.
I'm looking for someone pushing.
Speaker 4: I'm not saying I got I like I said, I don't think that they're like the teachers
themselves are saying are pushing puberty blockers like they're going saying puberty
blockers.
I'm saying that the calmer like the thought process and the transition to the end result
with transitioning.
If you read brockers is in like you may not like pushing the whole idea I got I'm not
I don't want to make a decision I'm against anything at all on zoom saying kids really
push an idea you.
Speaker 1: Steve I get that but you started the call by saying that something is being
pushed and we've gone piece by piece.
And you're acknowledging you can't actually identify anyone pushing it.
I mean, everyone I ask you, is this person pushing it?
Is that person pushing it?
You go, well, no.
And they you're saying I'm.
Speaker 4: Not even saying what your definition of pushing it.
Speaker 1: Promoting, encouraging.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
I mean, the Biden administration is encouraging kids.
Speaker 1: Okay, now, but now, now we're back to the beginning.
That was your first claim which already fell apart.
All right, Steve, thank you for the column and I'll let you go.
By the way, I'm not even taking a position for or against puberty blockers for kids.
I don't know enough about it to say maybe it's not a good idea.
Maybe I'm not taking a position.
That caller had no idea what he was talking about.