I'M CHRISTIANE
AMANPOUR IN
KYIV, UKRAINE WHERE
RUSSIAN FORCES CONDUCTED A DRONE
AND MISSILE STRIKE AT THE CRACK
OF DAWN.
LARGEST SINCE SPRING SAY
OFFICIALS.
REMARKABLY ALL 28 CREWS MISSILES
WERE INTERCEPTED.
TWO PEOPLE WERE KILLED BY
FALLING DEBRIS.
PERHAPS MORE STRIKE AND
SIGNIFICANT AND ASTONISHING
DRONE ATTACKS AND RUSSIA.
MULTIPLE REGIONS WERE TARGETED
ACROSS ALMOST 1,000 KILOMETERS,
DRONES DAMAGED FOUR MILITARY
PLANES.
A SENIOR UKRAINIAN OFFICIAL SAYS
THE WAR IS INCREASINGLY MOVING
TO RUSSIA'S TERRITORY.
WHILE NOT CLAIMING
RESPONSIBILITY.
DMRRJT AT ITS CORE THE DEFENSE
OF UKRAINE HAD BEEN FRAMED BY
PRESIDENT BIDEN AND ALLIES AS
DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY AROUND THE
WORLD. INCLUDING IN AFRICA.
WHERE TODAY, AGAIN, DEMOCRACY
SUFFERED YET ANOTHER BLOW.
AS A GROUP OF MILITARY OFFICERS
SEIZED POWER.
IN WHAT APPEARS TO BE THE LATEST
IN A STRING OF COUP ACROSS THE
CONTINENT.
WE'LL TRY TO CONNECT THE DOTS
AND EXPLORE WHAT THIS ALL MEANS
WITH EACH OF OUR IMPORTANT
GUESTS.
INCLUDING THE EUROPEAN UNION FOR
A REASON POLICY CHIEF JOSEPH BUR
RELL AND GENERAL STALL TEN BERG
>> FIONA HILL, FORMER ASSIST TO
DROP AND SENIOR ON THE NATIONAL
SECURITY COUNCIL.
FIONA HILL WELCOME BACK TO THE
PROGRAM.
LET ME START BY ASKING YOU.
IT'S NOT UNUSUAL TO SEE ATTACKS
IN TO KIEV, NOT UNUSUAL TO SEE
THEM INTERCEPTED THANKS TO THE
PATRIOT MISSILES AND OTHERS, BUT
THIS MASSIVE ATTACK INTO RUSSIA
IS A FIRST.
HOW DO YOU ASSESS WHAT'S
HAPPENING?
>> WELL, LOOK, I THINK FROM THE
UKRAINIAN POINT OF VIEW THERE ON
THE GROUND IN KIEV, I'M SURE
WE'LL BE TALKING TO PEOPLE ABOUT
THIS.
IN PART, IT'S FOR DOMESTIC
AUDIENCES IN UKRAINE AND ALSO IN
THE AUDIENCE OF WESTERN ALLIES
STANDING BY AND SUPPORTING
UKRAINE TO SHOW THAT UKRAINE HAS
AGENCY IN THIS WAR.
THIS IS NOT JUST A ONE-SIDED
CONFLICT IN WHICH RUSSIA WAS
RELENTLESSLY ATTACKING
UKRAINIANS AND TRYING TO KEEP
HOLD ON TO THE TERRITORY THAT
IT'S ALREADY TAKEN.
BUT THE UKRAINE HAS SOME
CAPABILITY OF REMINDING PEOPLE
IN RUSSIA THAT THERE IS A WAR.
AND THERE IS NOT WITHOUT
CONSEQUENCES IN RUSSIA ITSELF.
I DON'T THINK THAT THE
UKRAINIANS ARE FULLY TAKING THE
CONFLICT INTO RUSSIA.
THEY'RE CONSTRAINTS AROUND THAT.
IN PART BECAUSE, OF COURSE,
UKRAINE IS TRYING TO MAKE THE
CASE.
BUT DEFENDING ITS OWN TERRITORY.
THIS IS NOT A DISPUTE WITH
RUSSIA OVER TERRITORY OR AN
EFFORT BOY UKRAINE TO EXPAND ITS
GAINS. THAT IS IS UKRAINE'S EFFORT TO
BRING TERRITORY BACK.
BY TELLING RUSSIA AND THE
RUSSIAN POPULATION THAT THERE
ARE COSTS TO CONTINUING THIS
WAR.
IT'S A SIGNAL TO THE RUSSIAN
POPULATION AS WELL AS IT IS TO
THE DOMESTIC POPULATION IN KIEV
AND UKRAINE BUT AT LARGE UKRAINE
HAS THE ABILITY TO MAKE PRESENCE
FELT INSIDE OF RUSSIA.
>> IT IS EXTRAORDINARY PEOPLE
HERE ARE ALL TALKING ABOUT IT.
THIS INCREDIBLE RANGE OF
APPARENTLY THESE DRONES.
AND THAT EVEN PRESIDENT PUTIN'S
OWN SPOKESPERSON DMITRY CALLED A
MASSIVE ATTACK.
THEY FRAME IT AS TERRORISM.
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK KNOWING,
OBVIOUSLY THE WAY THEY THINK,
OPERATE, ET CETERA, WHAT DO YOU
THINK THIS IS GOING TO MEAN TO
PRESIDENT PUTIN DESPITE WHAT YOU
SAY IT'S REALLY FOR DOMESTIC
EFFECT HERE IN UKRAINE?
DO YOU THINK IT WILL HAVE ANY
EFFECT ON THE KREMLIN AND THE
LEADERSHIP?
>> ONE OF THE REASONS THE
UKRAINIANS HAVE BEEN SO CAREFUL
OF COURSE, LOT OF THESE
BOMBARDMENTS CAN EXACT OPPOSITE
EFFECT.
YOU SEE, FOR EXAMPLE, RUSSIA'S
BOMBARDMENT OF UKRAINE
STRENGTHENED RESULT OF
UKRAINIANS, THROUGHOUT HISTORY
WE'VE SEEN AERIAL BOMBARDMENTS
RARELIES HAVE EFFECT THAT THE
AGGRESSOR WANTS IT TO HAVE,
WHICH IS TO BREAK THE SPIRITS OF
THE PEOPLE UNDER AERIAL ATTACK.
IN THE CASE AGAIN, UKRAINIAN
DRONE ATTACKS ON MOSCOW, IT'S
MEANT MORE TO SIGNAL THAT
UKRAINE CAN PUT CERTAIN PHYSICAL
OBJECTS AT SOME KIND OF JEOPARDY
IN RUSSIA.
BUT THE RISK IS, OF COURSE, THE
RUSSIANS REACT TO THIS.
THEY RALLY AROUND PUTIN AND HIS
ACCUSATIONS OF TERRORISM.
IT HAS AN UNFORTUNATE UNINTENDED
CONSEQUENCE OF HARDENING.
BASICALLY THEY'RE TRYING TO
ENCOURAGE THE IDEA OF RUSSIA
EVENTUALLY ENGAGING IN SOME KIND
OF DIPLOMACY DOWN THE LINE.
LOOK, THIS WAR IS SELF DEFEATING
EXERCISE FOR RUSSIA AS WELL.
I THINK WE HAVE TO WATCH THIS
VERY CAREFULLY.
BECAUSE OF COURSE, PUTIN WILL
TRY TO PLAY THIS TO HIS
ADVANTAGE.
I THINK THE UKRAINIANS
THEMSELVES ARE TRYING TO
COLLABORATE THIS ACCORDINGLY.
THERE ARE DOWN SIDES AND UP
SIDES TO DOING THIS KIND OF
DRONE ASSAULT ON MOSCOW AND ON
OTHER CITIES WITHIN RUSSIA.
>> ALSO AS WE DISCUSSED ON OUR
PROGRAM LAST NIGHT.
THE VERY DARING ATTACK ON TO
MILITARY TARGETS INSIDE CRIMEA.
YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A FEW WEEKS
AGO.
YOU RAISED THE ISSUE OF
POTENTIAL PEACE NEGOTIATIONS
DOWN THE LINE.
IN THE MITTS MIDST OF A COUNTY
COUNTER OFFENSIVE.
RUSSIA ADAPTED TO USE OF DRONES,
BUT DUG IN AND DEFENSES ARE
APPARENTLY INCREDIBLY YOU KNOW,
EFFECTIVE.
DO YOU SEE AND WHEN WOULD YOU
LOOK FOR ANY SIGN OF THAT THERE
MIGHT BE A SHIFT TOWARDS ANY
KIND OF NEGOTIATION?
>> WELL, LOOK, IT HAS TO BE A
DIPLOMATIC EFFORT FIRST.
AND YOU HAVE COMING ON TO THE
PROGRAM BURRELL AND SECRETARY
GENERAL STALL TINBERG PARTS OF
THE WHOLE PROCESS HERE IS
PREPARING DIPLOMATIC FIRM WORK
FOR SOMETHING EVENTUAL AND
PUTTING UKRAINE IN THE BEST
POSSIBLE DIPLOMATIC POSITION.
I DON'T THINK WE TALK ABOUT AN
ACTUAL NEGOTIATION AT THIS
STAGE.
YOU AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS
BEFORE.
DIPLOMACY IS OFTEN
CONFACILITATED WITH THAT.
BASICALLY WE HAVE TO HAVE A LOT
OF DIPLOMATIC SUPPORT FOR
UKRAINE AS WELL AS FOR UKRAINE'S
POSITION.
SO THERE'S A DUAL TRACK GOING ON
HERE. I THINK THAT SECRETARY GENERAL
STALL TENBERG HAS BEEN TALKING
ABOUT THIS, I KNOW THAT THE HIGH
REPRESENTATIVE BURRELL OF THE
UKRAINE OF THINKING ABOUT THIS
HOW DO YOU STRENGTHEN NOT JUST
THE BATTLEFIELD?
WE'VE SEEN PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY
MOSTING WERE IT AFRICAN UNION,
GOING TO COPENHAGEN IN DENMARK,
THERE'S A BIG EFFORT TO
BASICALLY MAKE IT CLEAR THAT
UKRAINE SOVEREIGNTY AND
INDEPENDENCE AND TERRITORY
INTEGRITY HAS TO BE THE STARTING
POINT FOR ANYTHING WE MIGHT
ULTIMATELY DO DOWN THE LINE IN
THE NEGOTIATION.
WE'RE TRYING TO STRENGTHEN
UKRAINE'S POSITION ON EVERY
FRONTIER.
>> AND YOU'RE RIGHT.
WE WILL FURTHER EXPLORE THAT
WITH JOSEPH BURREL IN A SECOND.
CAN I ASK YOU?
YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY SO WELL
FAMILIAR WITH THE U.S. NATIONAL
SECURITY AND THE DIPLOMATIC
PROCESS FROM THERE.
IS THE U.S. ESSENTIALLY LEADS
OBVIOUSLY ALONG WITH THE
EUROPEAN UNION AND NATO BUT THE
U.S. ESSENTIALLY LEADS AND I'VE
BEEN LED TO UNDERSTAND THAT
GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD ARE
WAITING AND TAKING LEAD FROM THE
U.S.
WHAT DO YOU THINK AFTER A YEAR
AND A HALF WILL BE THE POSITION
OF THE UNITED STATES IN THE NEXT
FEW MONTHS, IN THE NEXT YEARS,
IF THE PARTIES CHANGE IN THE
NEXT ELECTION?
>> WELL, LOOK, IT'S NOT JUST
WILL THEY CHANGE IN THE NEXT
ELECTION.
BUT JUST THE -- WHICH I THINK
YOU'RE HINTING AND TALKING ABOUT
HERE, WHICH IS THE PRESIDENTIAL
CAMPAIGN, WE'VE ALREADY SEEN
FROM THE REPUBLIC PARTY DEBATE
THIS IS AN ISSUE ABOUT SUPPORT
FOR UKRAINE.
A PARTY'S OWN TO ISSUE IN SOME
RESPECTS.
BUT IT'S BEEN, KICKED ABOUT IN
U.S. POLITICS.
I WOULD BASICALLY SAY TO TALK TO
MR. BURELL AND STALL TINBERG
ABOUT INSTITUTION AND MECHANISMS
AND OTHER PLAYERS HAVE TO STEP
UP AND TAKE ON A LOT OF
RESPONSIBILITY FOR PUSHING
FORWARD ON THE DIPLOMATIC FRONT
AS WELL AS THINKING ABOUT
UKRAINE'S SECURITY.
THIS CANNOT BE LEFT TO BE THE
DOMESTIC POLITICAL ISSUE OF ANY
PARTICULAR COUNTRY.
U.S. LEADERSHIP IS IMPORTANT.
THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION
SHOWING LEADERSHIP THERE'S
PLENTY OF OTHER LEADERSHIP
WITHIN CONGRESS AND THE SENATE.
AND SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE AND ITS
PETITION HERE IN THE UNITED
STATES.
IT'S NOT JUST AN ISSUE OF DEBATE
WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY
SYSTEM AT THE MOMENT.
BUT WE HAVE TO STEP UP.
IT CAN'T BE LEFT TO THE
VAGUERIES OF THE U.S. POLITICS.
WE DO NEED TO SEE MORE ACTION BY
THE EUROPEAN UNION, NATO AND
OTHER PLAYERS, JAPAN, SOUTH
KOREA, AUSTRALIA, G7, THERE ARE
OTHER INTEREST PARTIES.
WE NEED TO HAVE A FULL
DIPLOMATIC EFFORT INCLUDING THE
UNITED NATIONS.
SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE UNITED
NATIONS PLAYED A KEY ROLE.
AND OTHER PLAYERS IN THE MIX.