geoff: More than 6000
communities on the popular
social networking forum Reddit
have gone dark as moderators
protest the company's decision
to charge some third-party apps
for the use of Reddit data.
The move is controversial with
many of the apps having to shut
down as a result, but the Reddit
CEO doesn't appear to be backing
down anytime soon.
Reddit often refers to itself as
the "Front page of the internet"
and is one of the most-visited
sites on the web.
Bobby Allyn covers business and
technology for NPR and joins us
now.
It is great to have you here.
I feel like we should start with
a glossary of terms for our
viewers who are not as familiar
with this stuff as we are.
Reddit is a discussion forum,
and subreddits are the
discussion threads.
There are subreddits on
everything from gaming to
gardening to sports to science.
Help us understand how this
protest started and what these
moderators are trying to get
from it.
Bobby: Reddit has been around
for almost 20 years and has been
one of the most popular online
forums on the web, as you
mentioned.
For the longest time, Reddit
didn't have its own official
mobile app so that meant a lot
of third-party app developers
introduced apps where people can
browse Reddit on their phones
and the only way they can do
that is if Reddit allowed access
to the data from the third-party
apps.
That is how it has worked for
years.
But recently, Reddit said we
should start charging those
third-party developers for
access to our data.
The bills could be as much as
$20 million a year.
These are small app developers.
I spoke to one guy who runs
Apollo, he is based in nova
Scotia.
He's the only person who runs
this app.
He cannot afford $20 million a
year.
In response to this, thousands
and thousands of subreddits,
these discussion groups, decided
to go dark.
If you try to access one of
these forums today, you can't.
This affects people who don't
use Reddit.
If you Google something about a
baseball game, something about
your favorite movie, something
about skateboarding, you will
not get results from Reddit.
Reddit is a wealth of
information and conversations
about practically everything.
By having this many discussion
groups go dark, it is really
affecting large swaths of the
internet.
Geoff: On that point, companies
that are developing artificial
intelligence technology are
using data from Reddit to
basically teach A.I. How to talk
and have human interactions.
What better way to do that than
to use data from a discussion
forum.
Is Reddit not getting paid by
the likes of openai and
Microsoft when they use their
data?
Bobby: So, Steve Huffman, the
CEO of Reddit, has justified the
new charges this way.
He has said popular tools like
chatgpscrape Reddit in
order to train its ai models.
Steve Huffman says I run Reddit,
this company has been around for
almost 20 years, it has never
been profitable.
He is trying to take the company
public later this year so he has
an eye towards making
investors feel good about
potentially investing.
One way to do this, come up with
another revenue stream.
He says these big companies that
are running these large language
models like openai, like Google
and Microsoft, they should be
paying for all the data they are
accessing from Reddit.
That is how Huffman has
justified these new charges.
Small developers of third-party
apps say how about us?
We cannot afford a $20 million
bill a year.
Geoff: $20 million a year is
real money.
How will this be resolved?
The people who love Reddit love
it because it has not been
profit driven.
It was not really seen as a
commercial entity, but now the
CEO is trying to change course
here.
Bobby: Hard to know how this is
going to shake out in the end.
We do know that Reddit has said
they are not really interested
in coming to the negotiating
table about these new charges.
The blackout protest, the
boycott is only going to last 48
hours.
We will see if they try to
extend it a little longer to get
more leverage, to bring Reddit
to the negotiating table.
Assuming they don't, I think we
will see large parts of Reddit
move to other online forums.
That is going to be a real hit
to this company because last
time I checked, it is the 20th
most popular website.
It is a real powerhouse.
To drive a stake into the heart
of one of the most popular
forums on the web is a really
big deal.
This does not just affect people
who use Reddit.
It affects people who Google
anything they want to Google
every day and stumble upon
something on a forum that
actually was pretty interesting.
If you are going to have many
parts of this community moved to
other websites, it will really
divide the internet in a way
that will affect all of us.
Geoff: Bobby Allyn covers
business and technology for NPR.
Thank you for being with us.
Bobby: Thanks.
♪♪