Hong Kong: The Frontline Battle Against China
Baggio Leung,
a protester in the 2014 Umbrella Movement
He was elected to office...
but disqualified and thrown in jail
for challenging the system
Now he shares what’s changed in this battle for Hong Kong
Welcome to China Uncensored.
I'm Chris Chappell.
Joining me today is Baggio Leung,
a Hong Kong politician and activist.
Thanks for joining me today.
Thank you for interviewing me.
Sure.
So what was your reaction
when 2 million Hongkongers took to the streets
to protest the extradition bill?
It is a quite touching moment to me.
When you get into the transportation, metro, Admiralty,
you feel like all people,
90% of them,
is wearing black clothes.
The other 10%,
maybe they are medias,
wearing a media shirt.
Yeah, that was me.
And this like...
all people is standing as one.
So it's quite touching.
Now after the Umbrella Movement,
were you concerned that Hong Kong had lost its will?
After the Umbrella Movement we failed to...
we failed, actually, in the movement.
We failed to have universal suffrage,
which is our main focus of the movement.
And then different peoples tried to come out,
tried to form parties like me,
tried to have different action to make Hong Kong better.
However, most of us failed again.
And in year 2019, luckily,
we did have some progress this time.
Of course, I would not claim this is a victory,
but we have some progress on the bill, extradition bill.
I know you were a democratically elected legislator.
But then you were disqualified
because you changed the oath,
and then they threw you into jail.
Did you ever imagine that would happen in Hong Kong?
We can never imagine before in Hong Kong, I think.
In the past few years actually we have
a lot of strange incidents that we cannot imagine.
We cannot imagine the police forces
will shoot at their own people and the press.
We cannot imagine they can disqualify
before the election and after the election.
We cannot imagine that the government
can have no response to what people want at all.
They were just...
even though Carrie Lam, she apologized last night.
However, still some of...
she didn't promise anything that we want,
including no prosecution to the protesters,
including no extradition bill amendments later on.
And so I don't think if I look back,
when this is 10 years ago,
I can't imagine Hong Kong will change
to this position or situation.
Do you think your disqualification
discouraged other young people
from trying to make changes within this system?
Indeed it is.
If you want to join,
take part in the election, firstly,
they will have offices, government offices,
to try to disqualify you with some reason
like you are not sincerely agree the Basic Law.
And after this,
even though when you get into the parliament,
the LegCo,
they can still use different kind of reason
to try to put some charges on you or disqualify you,
like unlawful assembly in the LegCo building
when you are working, okay?
So actually government
is putting a strong message on the young,
especially to the youngsters,
is that we cannot change much within the system.
Would you do anything differently?
When I look back,
I would still do the same thing.
Because what I add to the oath
is that I bring a flag "Hong Kong is not China."
Now in year 2019 still
we are seeing Hong Kong is not China.
So we say no to the extradition bill.
And I changed the oath to say
I want to guard Hong Kong nation interest.
I was elected by the people,
but not by Basic Law,
not by Hong Kong SAR and not by CCP.
But I need to take a oath
that is nothing related to the people.
So I add this.
And still I think who I should,
what I should do,
who actually guard this Hong Kong people's interest.
What have you been doing
since you were disqualified
and thrown into jail?
In Hong Kong we are at the frontline
that between some values of freedom,
democracy and the dictatorship.
China, CCP,
is the greatest dictatorship in the history.
And we are just in the frontline, Hong Kong.
And everyone who brings out the same ideology...
actually facing such a threat from them.
I'm not the only one.
Many people, maybe some protesters at the frontline,
they support even much than me.
I'm not the only one.
So I will do what I can to try to make Hong Kong better,
a better place.
How do you think these protests for the extradition bill
are different from the Umbrella Movement?
I think one main different I can observe
is that we have no icon figures
or so-called leaders in the extradition bill movement.
In the Umbrella Revolution,
we have Joshua Wong,
we have Benny Tai,
we have a lot of figures that can represent the people.
However, after the movement,
all of them are being put into jail, okay?
And people learned from this history.
Okay, if we have a leader and then the leader,
so that for this time,
let's make this no leader.
And somehow it works.
We form small circles,
we join small circles by ourselves,
and decide what to do,
when to do,
on internet and through different Telegram channel,
Telegram groups.
And somehow this new model somehow improves.
And the government since...
they just cannot response to this.
Speaking of that,
what do you think Carrie Lam
should do over the extradition bill?
At least she should promise two things.
Firstly, to make a promise that there will have
no prosecution on the protestors.
And the second thing is that she should promise
not to put the bill on to the LegCo forever.
I think Hongkongers and people around the world
shows what we are,
show our wills already.
We don't need this bill.
And we have different solution
to solve so-called the problem,
the crux of the system.
And please, just consider those option, those solution,
but not to amend the extradition bill
and put people in the dangers.
If she doesn't do that,
what do you think the Hong Kong people will do?
If she doesn't promise this,
I think Hong Kong people
will have some extra action on this
and keep putting pressure on the government
and try to make her change her mind.
We don't want to put this into a really threatening way,
but if she keep sitting here,
making no change,
I don't think this is acceptable to the people.
Do you think any kind of reform
is possible in Hong Kong
as long as the Chinese Communist Party
rules mainland China?
Unfortunately, I don't think we can change a lot.
We cannot change a lot about power structure.
We cannot change the system.
We cannot have universal suffrage.
Because from the history we can know that
CCP won't let or won't release the power on his hand.
This is the core idea
and the core interest they care about.
So universal suffrage,
rule of law, separation of power, etc.,
such idea that will constrain,
make constraint or limit their power,
they will try to break off this.
But this is what we treasure.
And so I think try to make
some separation between Hong Kong and China
is the best solution to solve the problem
right now in Hong Kong.
And what message would you like people around the world
to get about Hong Kong?
How can they show support?
China, CCP indeed, they are kind of imperialism.
They try, keep expanding their influence among the world.
They are a huge dictatorship to the world
and threatening the freedom, democracy,
such idea among the world.
Hong Kong, we just unfortunately stay
in the frontline between this core values
and a great dictatorship,
so please support this frontline.
We will fight till the end.
But please support us.
Please stand with us.
That was wonderful speaking to you.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Thank you so much.
And good luck out there.