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>> Good evening everyone,
Lisa Martin and Dave Vellante here.
Wrapping up an awesome day, covering Qlik World 2023,
live from Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas.
Dave, this has been such a great show.
Talk about data explosion, a data management evolution.
We've had an explosion of data content on theCUBE today.
We've had some amazing guests.
>> I didn't know what to expect here.
I mean, it's probably about what, 2000 people you'd say?
>> Yep.
>> Yeah, decent size ecosystem.
You know, it's funny, Lisa, as we've talked about today
I go back to the early days of theCUBE,
2010, I got a call from John Furrier said,
we're doing Hadoop World, get over here.
I was in a show in Dallas, so I flew through an ice storm.
(laughs)
I got into New York, uh, 3:00 AM and we did Hadoop World.
And that started really our journey into the big data world.
And we, you know, for years and years and years
have obviously covered data.
The reason I bring it up is Qlik, Attunity and Talend,
were there early on with theCUBE
and they were early guests.
We saw them, you know,
I mean Qlik obviously a 30 year old company, but you know
they were sort of reinventing themselves
in the big data era,
you know really getting into visualization.
So it was kind of interesting to see those three
companies come together.
>> Yeah.
>> Again, so that's kind of cool.
And I like the consolidation play.
>> Yeah.
>> Basically saying, I call it the consolidation place.
And we start out in visualization on-prem,
they went to the cloud.
Now interestingly, they did that behind the scenes,
you know, as a private company.
Now I've, I've sharpened my pencil a little bit,
I was overly optimistic.
Originally I had these guys, I was guessing
around 1.2 billion and I, they are over a billion,
I've confirmed that.
I think the reason I was overly optimistic is because
they had to go through a period of transition from,
and they're still going through it.
>> Yeah.
>> On-prem, perpetual license models to the ARR model,
that has a negative effect on revenue.
So I'm trying to do the math.
They got $6 billion all in and all the nine
or 10 or 11 acquisitions, when you count Talend
or Talend, that they'll be doing $6 billion
in enterprise value.
So they got to get that out if they're going to do an IPO.
>> Lisa Martin: Yeah.
>> Is my thinking on this.
So, you know, they're sort of break even on that
is about five x revenue.
So you know, they got to get, they got to get higher.
So the market conditions don't allow that.
So I would suspect these guys aren't going
public anytime soon.
>> Lisa Martin: Right.
>> You know, unless I'm missing something else.
So that aside, they got a good story.
You know, the idea that they're going to take all
this hard stuff, you know,
including and up to through BI,
we heard from Stuart Bond, he sort of laid out
the taxonomy of data quality and data governance
and metadata management and change data capture,
all that sort of really boring but important stuff.
They're trying to lock up that market as the independent.
>> Lisa Martin: Yeah.
>> Which, I love that play.
It's, 'cause you got SAP, you got IBM,
you got Informatica. Informatica's independent, but
but you've got a lot of the legacy companies.
So Informatica could be disruptive
but IBM, SAP, SaaS, Oracle,
they're going to do their own thing.
>> Yeah.
>> You have Qlik, is now the independent trying to
sort of lock up that industry, if you will,
with best of breed capabilities
and present it as a platform.
And of course you got the cloud guys
as Stuart Bond was saying,
picking away at it.
But the market I think is actually really interesting
and it sets up what we've been talking about.
People, places and things,
the digital representation of your business,
the digital twin of your business.
These guys aren't there yet.
>> Yeah.
>> They may say they are, but they're not
because their limit is the data platform.
The Snowflakes, the Databricks, the Redshifts,
they're not there yet.
So these guys, you know, aren't going to beat them there.
>> No.
>> Or they might beat them there,
but the customer outcome can't occur
until the data platforms evolve
and they're all evolving.
Databrick's evolving, Snowflake's evolving,
BigQuery, the cloud guys.
So that's going to be interesting to watch.
And with all this foundation model stuff, this GPT stuff,
it could happen a lot faster than typical IT trends.
>> Well, so our first guest this morning, first guests,
were Mike Capone, the CEO of Qlik.
>> Dave Vellante: Yeah, let's go through those.
>> And Crawford Del Prete, the President of IDC,
one of the things that you brought up with Mike
is he's been at the helm for five years now.
But you brought up, you guys were talking
about the M&A strategy versus organic.
A lot of M&A, Talend will be what, the 11th?
>> I think so, I think 11th, yes.
>> And as you mentioned, you know,
back in the OG days of theCUBE, going to Hadoop World
and there was these three companies
that are almost one now, Attunity, Talend and Qlik.
>> Dave Vellante: Yeah.
>> What were some of the things that you heard from Mike
from a strategic perspective
that piqued your interest?
>> Well, it's cliche, but I mean, I do think
that they are listening to their customers.
>> Lisa Martin: Yeah.
>> I think when, when you do that much M&A
and you know, not all of 'em work out,
you know, it's hard to tell because, private company,
can't wait to see the numbers.
But I think it's probably at least a year away.
But when you do that much M&A,
and my sense is they've certainly got Attunity right.
And I think Talend will be a good acquisition.
You've got to, you've got to identify those customer,
that customer affinity.
And they do that by going in the field,
they're talking to the salespeople,
they're talking to customers saying,
hey, why don't you work better with this company?
Well, they start doing things in the field and
all of a sudden they get momentum.
So I sensed that they had
kind of a good methodology to identify companies,
to target those companies.
You know, we heard, you know,
the four things that they look at,
the financials was the last one of course.
>> Yep.
>> But culture and you know obviously the technical fit.
>> Customer, yep.
>> The customer driven.
So, but what I heard was, we're not done yet.
>> Lisa Martin: Yeah.
>> You know, we're going to continue.
I didn't hear like a ton on,
you know, we're going to go hard after organic innovation too.
>> Lisa Martin: Right.
>> I'm curious as to, you know,
I asked that question a couple of times, as you know,
and I suspect the organic stuff is to stitch all,
all of this together.
>> Well, and that seems to be one of the things
that they've done better than some of their competitors.
We talk about, you know, integration, no pun intended,
but they seem to have done a good job with that.
You were bringing up something over the weekend to me
about their historic competitor, Tableau.
Salesforce acquired them.
Focus, not as great, opportunity for Qlik.
>> Yeah.
>> But they seem to, with the M&A strategy have done
a better job than a lot of companies I've talked to
about actually integrating the technologies.
So the customer experience is solid
and it actually allows customers
to really crank up the volume
on what the technology can enable them to do.
>> It's, I mean, it's hard to tell.
I've talked to a couple customers.
Frankly, a lot of customers
who like Harmon,
started with VIS on-Prem, moved to VIS in the cloud
and they're just, you could tell,
they're just kind of starting to get
into the whole integration play, right?
So that's, you know, the marketing is always
going to be ahead of the the actual.
>> Yep.
>> And so this is still a company in transition.
That's why it's kind of curious, the timing
of the confidential IPO filing.
>> Which was what, January?
>> It was January.
>> 23? Yeah.
>> Maybe, you know, 'cause we came into the year,
there was still some decent optimism.
The Fed was going to be tightening though, so you kind of knew.
So maybe they figured, hey, why not?
You know, let's sort of float it out there
and just start getting ready.
But as I say, I don't think that's going to happen for a while
'cause I think they still are transitioning from
you know, into an ARR model, more into the cloud,
still doing, I mean the Talend is going to be a big acquisition
for them obviously.
So I can't, I can't square that circle.
It's just, I think it's going to take a while
but eventually they'll get there.
But we saw companies like, you know, UiPath,
you know, they filed confidential.
It took them a while to, to get to public.
There's another company, Dynatrace is a company,
a Thoma Bravo company.
They, you know, went through that process.
So I think it's going to happen,
but it, it's hard to tell when they're,
when they're private company.
>> Lisa Martin: Yeah.
>> You know, that's the advantage of being a private company.
Ask Michael Dell.
>> Yeah.
>> You can do what you want.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, you don't have to be under the
scrutiny of the public eye.
So I thought a couple other things, Lisa.
I really loved the Brian Clark,
>> Yeah. >> Interview.
>> Yeah.
>> That was a lot of fun.
Drew Clark was awesome too with Jamie.
>> Yep, yep.
>> You know, and then, and then and then Chris from SDG.
>> Yep.
>> I thought that was a great conversation
on the future of Data.
Chris Powell, CMO, was awesome
and he brought on Steph.
So, >> From JBS, yeah.
>> But yeah, but so Brian Clark and and Josh,
who was head of product management.
>> Yeah, yeah.
>> Brian Clark was awesome. I thought he really brought
and I thought that Josh was good too.
>> Yeah.
>> I loved how he said,
whatever pricing you have is not going to be perfect.
>> Lisa Martin: Right.
>> So pricing software is really hard.
>> Lisa Martin: Yeah.
>> Is it user based? Is it usage based?
Is it capacity based? Is it consumption based?
Is it ELA, is it unlimited?
Those are really hard conversations
'cause it all comes down to the economics,
okay, how do I get the best deal if I'm a customer?
How do I not leave a ton of money on the table
if I'm the vendor?
I want a long term relationship,
so I'm willing to give up some,
some revenue or margin to have that lifetime value.
And so it's an art, it really is.
>> Oh, that's a great way of des-, it really is an art.
And you know, one of the things that,
that Josh could articulate was
their click is jumping into capacity pricing,
starting with data integration,
analytics later this year,
Brian did a great job of kind of identifying
some of the value in it,
the what's in it for me as a customer?
But also Josh said,
this is going to be an option for customers.
They don't have to change to this.
So he also talked about something we talked about
a few minutes ago is,
they are very much listening to their customers.
You and I talked to many, many clients.
Everybody's always customer obsession, customer first.
We start with the customer
and it's always nice to see
the actual proof in the pudding.
And I think he articulated, that Josh did,
in terms of listening to customers
and really being flexible to,
to really make changes or adapt
to what customers and partners are going to be telling him
about really diving into capacity pricing.
I kind of made a joke about dipping the toe in the water.
He said, oh no, no, it's, we're in.
>> Dave Vellante: Yeah. Yeah, they are in.
And then the Pizza Express folks were, that was
that was fun.
>> That was a great story.
>> The reason I like Brendan coming on is 'cause
we got a little peak at their cloud.
They really weren't talking much about Qlik Sense,
which is a cloud offering.
>> Yeah.
>> We just kind of assumed it's there
and people like it and that's,
they're going forward with it.
But it was good to hear basically, control plane and Amazon
maybe they'll go to other clouds at some point in time
>> Lisa Martin: Yeah.
>> But they can support data in other clouds
'cause Pizza Express is an Azure shop.
>> Lisa Martin: Yep.
>> So that was kind of interesting.
Whether or not it makes sense for them to be super cloud,
I actually think it does from a couple of standpoints.
One is, just doing deals with,
with all three cloud vendors,
adding Azure and GCP makes sense.
I do think there is a cost of that abstraction,
but it gives customers greater optionality
and it gives them the ability to continue to
do best of breed across the different clouds.
>> Lisa Martin: I thought just kind of double clicking
on the Pizza Express customer story,
>> Dave Vellante: Yeah.
>> You know how much I love a customer story.
I thought one of the things that was so great is,
that's a COVID success story.
>> Dave Vellante: Yeah. >> That is a business,
>> Dave Vellante: I was surprised.
>> 58 year old restaurant chain in the UK and Asia,
400 something stores that pivoted dramatically
and it started at the analytics level.
It didn't start at the top.
They really went and they pointed that out,
that it really started at the analytics there,
needing to give the folks in the stores
much more control to really be able to understand,
to pivot to delivery, which is not their core competency.
And now they're really elevating it up to the home office.
I thought that was a,
a really unique story that really validated what Qlik is
able to enable businesses to do,
especially during the last few years of such challenge.
>> Yeah, I mean, you know COVID was so interesting.
I call it the force march to digital.
>> Yeah.
>> Chipotle killed it during COVID
'cause they were ready for it,
they had the digital systems in place.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, the other end of the spectrum is a local
you know, restaurant chain in Boston, Legal Sea Foods.
Had no digital capability
and they really got hurt during COVID.
They couldn't operate really for a while.
And I think they opened on Father's Day during COVID
and it was not good, right?
And so they really struggled through it.
They ended up selling the company.
So it was kind of two ends of the spectrum.
I don't know, I don't order pizza from Domino's
but it seemed like they had it pretty good,
but so I imagine pizza's a little easier
'cause you got, you know, you got,
you got franchises and you can, you know,
push that out to them and you got a limited menu.
>> Lisa Martin: Yeah. >> You know,
so your supply chain is not that complicated.
But still, it's impressive
that they were able to move so fast
and it sounds like they did pretty well with it.
>> Lisa Martin: Yeah, yeah.
>> Yeah and then Chief Product Officer, James Fisher,
>> Yeah, yes. >> He's speaking tomorrow.
>> Lisa Martin: Yes. >> Tomorrow's product day.
It's that's the way to do it, right?
Day one is vision, day two is product.
>> Lisa Martin: Yep. >> So,
>> Lisa Martin: And it sounds like
there's some pretty cool things that are going to be announced.
He gave us some teasers.
>> Yeah.
>> Anything, if you had a crystal ball,
anything that you think they're going to be announcing?
>> Well, I think they got to,
they got to be showing something on,
on AI and ML and foundation models.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, how can they not?
>> Yeah.
>> And I think there'll be a lot of like,
really hardcore data integration stuff that, you know
the people in the audience, the customers are going to love.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, I'd be like, okay, yeah,
that's nice, you didn't have that already.
>> Yeah.
>> So, and it'll get some cheers.
>> Yeah.
>> But yeah, I would think the large language model,
the GPT and AI.
I think in particular this,
the data pipeline is so complicated.
>> Yeah.
>> And you know we heard Stuart Vaughn say,
look, ETL's not dead. It's not,
because you got to extract,
you got to at least transform and load,
or you can extract and load and then transform later.
That is definitely something that,
so ETL maybe, it's certainly not dead, but it's changing.
People don't like ETL.
People don't, I mean it's just, it's a
it's a necessary evil,
Could be, why? Because you have to take the data out
of the apps, of all the silos,
put it into a central location.
And before you do that you got to transform it.
Or not necessarily, you can put it into
the data store and then transform it later,
but that creates other problems.
That's data swamp, that creates data swamp sometimes.
>> Lisa Martin: Yeah. >> You know,
but the lakehouse technologies and modern data lakes
are solving that with modern data tooling.
So the point is there's still a need for that.
>> Yeah.
>> And that's sort of Informatica's stronghold.
So these guys can disrupt that a little bit,
especially if they have the end-to-end value proposition.
So if and when they go public,
you're going to hear a lot about cohort selling
and upselling and average contract values and,
and how long it takes to ramp up
and then how long it takes
for the cohort to buy other products.
And so that's the common software model.
I do think that this company and all data companies
are going to have to think about that mental model
that I put forth working with George Gilbert of Uber,
the digital twin for your business.
>> Yeah.
>> Stuart Bond picked right up on it.
>> Yep.
>> People, places and things, all coherent.
So you got your backend systems, your SAPs
and your ERPs and your Oracle systems feeding a data layer
and that data layer has data elements,
or data products that are all coherent
and you're building on top of that data apps.
Uber is a data app and all the data elements are coherent.
They have a semantic layer, they understand each other.
They're not copies of copies of copies.
You heard Stuart say that they're real time
and that is the future of data.
>> Lisa Martin: Yeah.
>> So we're shifting from a world that is application centric
where the data is locked inside the app,
locked inside the business logic,
to one that is data centric,
where the business logic and the metadata
are going to reside on top of the data,
not the other way around.
So data becomes first, you know, we talked about data first.
>> Lisa Martin: Yep.
>> That's what data first means to me.
And that's a brave new world.
And I have no doubt that a company like this,
who's so good at M&A is going to get there.
Some things have to be invented.
Zhamak Dehghani started a company
to sort of commercialize data mesh
and because she saw that there was so many gaps
and so she's going to go fill those gaps.
You know, data fabric, data mesh, all that stuff.
It talks to the future of data.
And I, again, Stewart Bond nailed it.
Data is going to be distributed,
only move it to a centralized repository when you have to.
>> Lisa Martin: And he really kind of dug it,
dug in on data intelligence.
And I thought that was such an interesting concept
of where organizations need to be able to, where
where do we put data?
Where does it need to be based on its value,
its relevance, et cetera.
I think we're just cracking the surface on that.
I think this is an interesting space to watch.
>> Yeah, he's talking about, you know,
whether it's metadata management.
I like the term data intelligence.
>> Lisa Martin: Yeah, yeah.
>> I mean it is somewhat confusing 'cause people might think,
you know, machine intelligence, data intelligence,
is that AI? >> Lisa Martin: Yeah.
>> But it does involve AI but it's, you know,
data about the data.
It's lineage, who has access to it?
Maybe it's not, maybe not identity, but,
but does this individual, you know, the,
what's the level of that data that can be accessed?
What is the provenance of that data?
You know, how long should we keep that data?
You know, when should it be deleted?
>> Yeah.
>> 'Cause you can't keep data forever.
>> Right.
>> You know, make sure it's in compliance,
that it's governed, that it's private, all that stuff.
And it's, it's discoverable.
>> Yeah.
>> And that makes it, you know, it's, and it's trusted.
>> Yes.
>> It's got high data quality which can be automated now
and ultimately shareable 'cause that's what it's all about.
>> Lisa Martin: Absolutely.
Dave, I have had a great day unpacking
all of this with you
and I'm sure that our audience did as well.
You can find a lot of great content's going to be coming
out on siliconangle.com.
As you know 'cause you probably bookmarked it.
But Dave, awesome job.
>> Thanks, Lisa.
>> Thank you so much.
>> Great working with you again, as always.
>> Absolutely, as always.
We want to thank you so much for watching theCUBE.
We appreciate you, you know that.
Lisa Martin for Dave Vellante,
signing off from Click World '23.
We'll see you at the next show.
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