- Trail bike round table.
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- Hi everyone I'm James Huang
I'm here at the Pinkbike Field Test
here in Pemberton B.C.,
and it's time after two weeks of testing
to talk about our favorites,
our least favorites in the trail category.
So for the trail category it's kind of amorphous
but we settled on front wheel travel
of 130 to 150 millimeter.
Rear travel of 125 to 140,
and we ended up with 4 candidates.
The Norco Optic, the Intense Primer S,
the Pole Stamina 140, and the Orbea Occam.
All these bikes have something to offer
and maybe some weaknesses, but what were your favorites?
- I think it's a hard one for me like
to the standout it's obviously the Norco Optic
and the Pole Stamina 140.
- I broke the pole.
- Man that's my favorite one!
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- Both of those bikes they're just a ton of fun.
I don't know, I have a hard time picking between them.
I think it would come down
to where I live because the Norco
with 125 in the rear and 140 up front,
it's probably the bike for the majority of people.
But goddamn that Pole Stamina was so much fun
down the hill.
(laughs)
- What is it about that bike you love so much?
- It is just so stable,
Leos nailed the geo on that thing.
All these bikes should have much steeper seat tube angles,
I think he's on track there.
You need that if it's gonna be that long
and the Pole is so good on the down
because it is that long and that head angle,
but you need that seat angle to go along with it.
- Listen to you.
Yeah just like last year the year before
you were all about "the bikes are getting too long,"
"they're too slack, they're too sluggish,"
"these are crazy numbers".
- I've been wrong before.
- You're wrong about this one.
- You know what there's still a place
for bikes that use slightly more traditional geometry
for sure but there's no arguing
that a bike like Pole, it is easily the fastest bike
here in the trail bike category down hills.
- That's good, yeah I think
for me it wasn't my favorite because it almost
didn't feel like a trail bike.
- Right?
- That's why I picked the Optic, I like the Optic the best.
125 in back, 140 up front.
It's got this super sporty fun feel,
but I can get in on some of the gnarlier stuff
and just feel fine.
I snuck out for a ride out this morning.
I had all those bikes lined up
that I could've picked any one and I grabbed that again
because it just felt super good
and even the techy stuff, the suspension tune is great.
That'd be the one that feels like a new modern trail bike.
Like if I was gonna have something even multiple bikes,
that'd be the one that's like kind of do it all.
- That's the one you'd take home if you could?
- Yeah I would take that one, yeah.
The Pole is amazing and it's super fun,
but it felt too much like an Enduro bike for me
and with the Pole I'd probably just end up
putting a 160 fork on it
and that would be kind of my enduro bike.
- You'd wreck it?
- Well I'd be slacker how's that gonna wreck it?
- You're not gonna go any faster
with another 10 mils up front.
Just leave it alone, you know?
But I just wanna say also that the Optic,
it's got 125 mils of travel
so it's the shortest travel trail bike that's here.
It's your favorite though by far it sounds like.
- Yes.
- And it all comes down to geo like Norco.
- Yeah the geo and the suspension tune as well though.
When I was riding today I was thinking about
that it only has 125 mils of travel.
But it has this super well damped feel.
Almost feels like the difference between say like
a light casing tire and downhill casing tire
if you've ever felt the difference
it kind of feels like that hits the ground
and kind of sticks.
- I think Norco definitely works some magic though
like it's supple on top,
it's plenty supportive, but I mean Kazimer and I
were riding like idiots and I didn't smash
onto the end of the travel.
No clanging, it was pretty impressive.
- All right well what was your least favorite
out of the 4 bikes you guys rode.
- Kazimer?
- Yeah, for me it's gonna be that Intense Primer.
It's all the other bikes are 29ers
so this had the mixed wheel size
which seems kind of cool on paper
and I think the concept has some merit.
I'm not a huge proponent of that but it's fun
to experiment and play around and stuff.
But with the Primer all they did
is take their 29er frame and stick a 27.5 wheel in back
and that just compromises geometry.
Climbing is a slacker seat tube angle,
bottom bracket drops it just all felt like
they were kind of have good idea
or something that'd be kind of fun to see in their lineup
but it just kind of didn't come out the way I wanted it.
- Sounds like you didn't corner hard enough on the way down.
- I mean the cornering is fun,
cornering is fun, but also it crapped
when I hit my elbow on the thing.
- Oh that also, that was neat.
I didn't do that, I didn't do any pedal kicks.
- And then some of the spec on the bike.
There's just too many little factors
that just wouldn't be a bike
that I would want to spend more time on.
Like I said it has potential
and we both loved the cornering on it,
but they can make it better
and it'd be fun that way, I think.
- Mike what was your least favorite?
- Well, I'm kind of torn because the Intense
is obviously a flawed bike the Primer S
I mean it is flawed.
I think if we had the 29er here, 29 front and rear
I think we'd probably like it more.
It's also an interesting bike
and that's something that really stands out for me.
The Occam on the other hand,
it doesn't do anything wrong
but it's also kind of boring.
It's light and relatively light, it pedals well enough.
The suspension is well sorted,
but there's nothing really that excites me
about the Occam.
- And we should maybe point out that
you're the guy who drives an old Mini Cooper
with a way big V-Tech engine in it
and you're gonna die in that car, but it's interesting.
- You have a flawed vehicle
so a flawed bike would be perfect for you.
- Flaws are interesting.
They're not always flaws.
That Intense is still far more capable
than any trail bike
from 3 or 4 years ago by far, definitely.
But it's just not as capable or we didn't feel
quite as comfortable on it as the other bikes.
It's not quite as dialed
but it's more interesting, whatever.
- Well which bike did you want to spend more time with,
like which one did you want to kind of get to know more?
- I just want to like spend all my time
with the Optic so that's kind of my answer.
But the Pole is definitely an intriguing bike
and it's a fun fast bike and it's interesting
to try to really come to terms with that handling
and see how hard you can push it.
I'd be happy spending more time on that
and probably trying a little longer travel fork
to see if it kind of makes it feel like just that.
(laughs)
You can't do that.
- I can do that.
- He did do that.
- I mean right now it's a 150, 140.
- Yeah. - Yeah,
so and it feels like an Enduro bike.
- It's so capable.
- So the 160 you get a little more travel.
- Why do you need more travel?
- So I can smash things even harder.
- You, okay, all right, it's a trail bike.
- That would make it not a trail bike, yeah.
10 mil's it's all it takes
and you're in a new category.
I'm an Enduro bike now.
- Isn't that how we do it?
- I think so yeah.
- I think my answer is the same as Kaz's.
I think it's a bike that takes time to learn how to ride
because it is so capable.
You know I was going faster on it than any the other bikes
and I wanna keep doing that.
I wanna keep riding the bike, the rear suspension
is so interesting it's not perfect.
I wasn't a huge fan of Cane Creek shock
but I'd like to spend more time setting it up
and seeing what I can get out of it.
- Yeah I think they offer it with a coil shock?
- I'm not sure if they do a coil shock
but you can get it with a RockShox,
air shock for sure.
- Different shocks so yeah same thing
like a little different rear suspension on it.
- I wouldn't give up on that Cane Creek
personally, I like dials and tuning
and doing all the stupid things.
- Yeah well just a different shock
that has dials but maybe not that one.
- Yeah okay, fair enough, okay.
- How was it on the impossible climb?
- Uh, it didn't do so well
on the impossible climb.
I don't know if you guys have seen that video,
I thought I would get higher up
on that because of that holy seat tube angle.
- The chain stays are this long.
- Something about a 4 foot long rear end
made it difficult and it also felt quite long.
You know I'm the guy that's always going on about
like bikes need to climb better, we give all these
trail bikes, Enduro bikes free passes.
- I gave that one a free pass.
- With more time I think I could add some changes
I think I could live with that Pole
on the climb and become very confident
on the technical climbs, it just didn't happen
during that impossible climb.
- So what you're saying
is you want a few more shots tomorrow on that bike.
- I'm pretty tired.
Maybe the next day.
- Okay, all right,
well those are our thoughts
on the trail category
from the Pinkbike Field Test,
so stay tuned for some more videos
and including some more round table discussions
of all the other categories.
If you have a comment, leave it down below
and we'll do our best to answer them.
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