REPUTABLE, FAIR? >> WITH 20/20 HINDSIGHT, THAT'S
FAIR.
FAIR.
FAIR. >>
FAIR. >> YES.
>> YES.
>> YES. YOU HAVE TESTIFIED HERE TODAY
THAT YOU ALSO CAME TO BELIEVE
THAT THE REQUEST FOR
INVESTIGATIONS INTO BURISMA WAS,
IN FACT, A REQUEST TO
INVESTIGATE THE BIDENS, BOTH
FORMER VICE PRESIDENT AND
HUNTER, AND INDEED, THE
TRANSCRIPT OF THE JULY 25th CALL
MAKES SPECIFIC REFERENCE TO
THAT, INCLUDING HUNTER BIDEN,
AND TODAY, THE -- EVEN THE
RANKING MEMBER SAID WE COULD
CLEAR ALL THIS UP IF WE COULD
HAVE HUNTER BIDEN IN.
I HAVE A SIMPLE QUESTION.
WHAT UKRAINIAN LAW DID HUNTER
BIDEN VIOLATE?
BIDEN VIOLATE? >> I'M NOT AWARE.
>> WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE THAT
HE MAY HAVE VIOLATED ANY
UKRAINEN LAW?
UKRAINEN LAW? >> I'M NOT AWARE.
>> THAT'S BECAUSE THERE IS NONE,
SIR.
SIR.
SIR. FINALLY, ALSO FROM YOUR OPENING
STATEMENT, YOU SAID, AS YOU
KNOW, I HAVE ALREADY PROVIDED
TEN HOURS OF DEPOSITION
TESTIMONY.
TESTIMONY. I DID SO DESPITE DIRECTIVES FROM
THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE STATE
DEPARTMENT THAT I REFUSE TO
APPEAR AS MANY OTHERS HAVE DONE.
I AGREED TO TESTIFY BECAUSE I
RESPECT THE GRAVITY OF THE
MOMENT AND I BELIEVE I HAVE AN
OBLIGATION TO ACCOUNT FULLY FOR
MY ROLE IN THESE EVENTS.
DID -- BY OBLIGATION, YOU MEAN
SIMPLY YOUR LEGAL OBLIGATION OR
DID YOU MEAN SOMETHING BIGGER?
>> BIGGER?
>> BIGGER? >> WELL, BOTH MY LEGAL
OBLIGATION AND MY MORAL
OBLIGATION.
OBLIGATION. >> YOUR MORAL OBLIGATION.
I ACTUALLY WANT TO PRESENT AN
ALTERNATIVE THEORY.
ALTERNATIVE THEORY. YOUR FAMILY CAME HERE ESCAPING
THE HOLOCAUST VIA URUGUAY, AND
YOUR PARENTS MOVED LUCY AND
LATER YOU HERE WHERE, FRANKLY,
YOU'VE BEEN AN AMERICAN SUCCESS
STORY THROUGH HARD WORK AND
INNOVATION, HIRING THE RIGHT
PEOPLE AND SOME LUCK, YOU'VE
BUILT A CONSIDERABLE SUCCESSFUL
BUSINESS, ONE THAT I KNOW FOR A
FACT WOULD MAKE YOUR PARENTS
PROUD.
PROUD.
PROUD. THEY CAME HERE BECAUSE THEY KNEW
THAT IT WAS HERE THAT THEY COULD
HAVE FREEDOM THEY HAD NOT
ENJOYED, SECURITY THEY HAD NOT
ENJOYED, AND OPPORTUNITY THAT
THEY HAD NOT ENJOYED.
NO DOUBT ON SOME LEVEL YOU'RE
GRATEFUL AND HAS CREATED A SENSE
OF PATRIOTISM IN YOU.
IS THAT FAIR TO SAY?
>> VERY FAIR.
>> WHY THEN, SIR, WITH YOUR
COURAGE TO COME BEFORE US DOES
THAT SAME STANDARD NOT APPLY TO
MR. MULVANEY, MR. DUFFY, MR.
POMPEO, MR. BOLTON, MR.
GIULIANI?
GIULIANI?
GIULIANI? WHY SHOULDN'T THOSE SAME
SENTIMENTS BEAT WITHIN THEIR
HEARTS TO DO THEIR PATRIOTIC
DUTY AND DO WHAT YOU HAVE DONE,
SIR?
SIR?
SIR? INDEED, WHY DOESN'T THAT SAME
STANDARD APPLY TO THE PRESIDENT
OF THE UNITED STATES?
>> I WISH I COULD ANSWER.
>> I SUSPECT YOU CAN'T BECAUSE
THERE IS NO GOOD ANSWER, BUT I
DO APPRECIATE YOUR WILLINGNESS
TO COME HERE TODAY.
WITH THAT I YIELD BACK, MR.
CHAIRMAN.
CHAIRMAN.
CHAIRMAN. >> THANK YOU, CONGRESSMAN.
MR. JORDAN.
MR. JORDAN. >> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
I ASK UNANIMOUS CONSENT TO ENTER
INTO THE RECORD A STATEMENT FROM
CHIEF OF STAFF MICK MULVANEY.
>> WITHOUT OBJECTION.
WE HAVEN'T SEEN ALL THESE
STATEMENTS BUT I PRESUME THEY
ARE ACCURATE AND NO OBJECTION.
>> THANK YOU.
AMBASSADOR, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS
NOT A BIG FAN OF FOREIGN AID, IS
THAT RIGHT?
THAT RIGHT? >> I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A FAIR
CHARACTERIZATION.
CHARACTERIZATION. I THINK HE'S CAREFUL.
>> CONCERNS ABOUT FOREIGN AID
GOING TO CERTAIN COUNTRIES.
FAIR ENOUGH.
FAIR ENOUGH. HE KNEW UKRAINE WAS CORRUPT, IS
THAT RIGHT?
THAT RIGHT? >> HE BELIEVED UKRAINE WAS
CORRUPT.
CORRUPT.
CORRUPT. >> AND HE WANTED EUROPE TO DO
MORE?
MORE?
MORE? >>
MORE? >> DEFINITELY.
>> DEFINITELY. >> AND THE PRESIDENT HAD A
BELIEF THAT UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT
OFFICIALS, SOME SENIOR UKRAINIAN
OFFICIALS SUPPORTED HIS OPPONENT
IN 2016.
IN 2016.
IN 2016. I WON'T GO INTO ALL THE DETAILS
BUT I THINK OF THE ONE, A MEMBER
OF PARLIAMENT, WHO SAID A NUMBER
OF POLITICIANS WANT HILLARY
CLINTON TO WIN, SO HE HAD THAT
BELIEF AS WELL.
AND, OBVIOUSLY, HE UNDERSTOOD
WHAT WAS HAPPENING.
WE HAVE A BRAND-NEW GUY IN
UKRAINE, THIS ZELENSKY WINS,
RIGHT?
RIGHT?
RIGHT? >>
RIGHT? >> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> HIS PARTY TAKES OVER AND
PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS TO SEE
WITH ALL THESE OTHER THINGS THAT
ARE OF CONCERN TO HIM, HE WANTS
TO SEE IF THIS NEW GUY IS
ACTUALLY, AS I LIKE TO SAY, THE
REAL DEAL, A REAL REFORMER AND
WILL DEAL WITH THE CORRUPTION
PROBLEM.
PROBLEM.
PROBLEM. AID GETS HELD UP FOR 55 DAYS,
HELD UP ON JULY 18th AND THEN IS
RELEASED ON SEPTEMBER 11th.
BUT IT SEEMS TO ME MORE
IMPORTANT THAN THE 55-DAY PAUSE
IS THE 14 DAYS WHEN UKRAINE
REALIZED AID WAS HELD UP ON THE
29th.
29th.
29th. WE'VE NOW HAD YOU TESTIFY TO
THAT, THE TWO WITNESSES
YESTERDAY TESTIFIED TO THAT, THE
POLITICAL ARTICLE.
POLITICAL ARTICLE. AID GETS HELD UP ON AUGUST --
EXCUSE ME, UKRAINE LEARNS IT'S
HELD UP ON AUGUST 29th AND THEN,
OF COURSE, RELEASED ON SEPTEMBER
11th.
11th.
11th. IN
11th. IN THOSE 14 DAYS THERE ARE THREE
IMPORTANT MEETINGS WITH SENIOR
GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS AND
PRESIDENT ZELENSKY.
PRESIDENT ZELENSKY. THE AUGUST 29th MEETING BETWEEN
AMBASSADOR BOLTON AND PRESIDENT
ZELENSKY, THE MEETING SEPTEMBER
1st THAT YOU'RE A PART OF, VICE
PRESIDENT PENCE MEETS WITH
PRESIDENT ZELENSKY, AND THEN THE
MEETING SEPTEMBER 5th SENATORS
MURPHY AND JOHNSON MEET WITH
PRESIDENT ZELENSKY.
PRESIDENT ZELENSKY. NONE OF THOSE MEETINGS -- NONE
OF THOSE MEETINGS DID ANY
LINKAGE TO SECURITY ASSISTANCE
DOLLARS AND AN ANNOUNCEMENT OR
START OF ANY INVESTIGATION EVER
COME UP.
COME UP.
COME UP. NONE OF THEM.
BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THE ONE
THAT'S MOST IMPORTANT IS
PROBABLY THE ONE WE'VE TALKED
LEAST ABOUT AND THAT'S THE
SEPTEMBER 5th MEETING BECAUSE
THAT'S ACTUALLY A MEETING WHERE
THERE IS NO ONE -- WELL, IT'S
MUCH MORE CONGRESSIONAL FOCUSED
THAN WHITE HOUSE FOCUSED.
THIS IS THE MEETING WHERE
SENATORS MURPHY, SENATORS MURPHY
AND JOHNSON, BIPARTISAN, MEET
WITH PRESIDENT ZELENSKY.
AND WHAT'S INTERESTING IS WHAT
BOTH SENATORS IN THE TWO DAYS
HAVE GIVEN US LETTERS RECOUNTING
WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT MEETING.
SENATOR MURPHY SAID I BROACHED
THE TOPIC OF PRESSURE ON
ZELENSKY FROM RUDY GIULIANI AND
THE PRESIDENT'S OTHER EMISSARIES
TO LAUNCH INVESTIGATIONS INTO
TRUMP'S POLITICAL RIVALS.
MURPHY BROUGHT IT UP.
YOU HAVE TWO SENATORS WHO BOTH
STRONG SUPPORTERS OF MONEY GOING
TO UKRAINE, THESE GUYS ARE ALL
FOR IT.
FOR IT.
FOR IT. AND SENATOR MURPHY, THE
DEMOCRAT, EVEN BRINGS UP THE
ISSUE EVERYONE HAS BEEN TALKING
ABOUT.
ABOUT.
ABOUT. IT
ABOUT. IT SEEMS TO ME IF EVER THERE WAS
GOING TO BE A TIME WHERE THE
PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE SAYS, GUYS,
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DEALING
WITH, I'M GETTING PRESSURE FROM
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES.
STATES.
STATES. HE WANTS ME TO DO THIS.
IT SEEMS IF EVER THERE WAS A
TIME THAT THE PRESIDENT OF
UKRAINE, THE NEW GUY WHO NOW
KNOWS THE AID HAS BEEN ON HOLD,
IF EVER THERE WAS A TIME TO
BRING IT UP, THAT WOULD HAVE
BEEN THE TIME.
GUESS WHAT.
GUESS WHAT. AT NO TIME SENATOR JOHNSON TELLS
US, AT NO TIME DURING THIS
MEETING OR ON ANY OTHER MEETING
ON THIS TRIP WAS THERE ANY
MENTION BY ZELENSKY OR ANY OTHER
UKRAINIAN THAT THEY WERE FEELING
PRESSURE TO DO ANYTHING IN
RETURN FOR MILITARY AID.
NOT EVEN, SENATOR JOHNSON SAYS,
NOT EVEN AFTER MURPHY WARNED
THEM ABOUT GETTING INVOLVED IN
THE ELECTION.
THE ELECTION. SO MURPHY GAVE THIS BIG DEAL ON
GIULIANI AND NOTHING.
NOTHING.
NOTHING.
NOTHING. GUESS WHAT MURPHY ALSO SAID, I
DO NOT DISPUTE ANY OF SENATOR
JOHNSON'S FACTUAL
JOHNSON'S FACTUAL REPRESENTATIONS REGARDING THE
MEETING.
MEETING.
MEETING. IF EVER IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN,
SEPTEMBER 5th WAS THE DAY.
NO ONE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE
THERE.
THERE.
THERE. NOT A.M. B
THERE. NOT AMBASSADOR BOLTON.
OF COURSE AS YOU TESTIFIED
EARLIER THERE WAS NEVER AN
ANNOUNCEMENT.
ANNOUNCEMENT. YOU SAID THERE WERE THREE QUID
PRO QUOS BUT THERE WEREN'T
BECAUSE THERE WAS NEVER AN
ANNOUNCEMENT.
ANNOUNCEMENT. I MEAN, THIS IS AS CLEAR AS IT
GETS THAT THESE GUYS WANT TO
KEEP STIRRING IT UP BASED ON NO
DIRECT EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER.
AND THE BEST DIRECT EVIDENCE WE
HAVE IS ACTUALLY WHAT THE
PRESIDENT TOLD YOU.
I WANT NOTHING.
THERE IS NO QUID PRO QUO.
I WANT ZELENSKY TO DO EXACTLY
WHAT HE CAMPAIGNED ON.
AND WHEN THAT BECAME CLEAR TO
US, GUESS WHAT, THEY GOT THE
MONEY.
MONEY.
MONEY. THEY GOT THE MONEY.
GOD BLESS AMERICA.
IT ALL WORKED OUT, RIGHT?
THIS IS CRAZY WHAT WE'RE GOING
THROUGH BECAUSE THE FACTS ARE SO
DARNED CLEAR.
DARNED CLEAR. I YIELD BACK.
>> MR. WELCH.
>> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
AMBASSADOR, I'M IMPRESSED WITH
YOUR CAREER, VERY SUCCESSFUL IN
BUSINESS.
BUSINESS.
BUSINESS. I'M IMPRESSED WITH YOUR
COMMITMENT TO PUBLIC SERVICE.
AND I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH
YOUR FORTHRIGHT STATEMENT.
SO THANK YOU FOR THAT.
YOU SAID IT WAS THE HIGHEST
HONOR FOR YOU TO HAVE THIS
OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THIS
APPOINTMENT TO SERVE AS
AMBASSADOR TO THE EU, CORRECT?
>> CORRECT.
>> CORRECT. >> AND YOU QUICKLY BECAME VERY
INVOLVED IN THE UKRAINE POLICY.
AND THAT POLICY HAS BEEN
DESCRIBED BY YOU AND OTHERS WAS
REALLY VERY CLEAR, HELP UKRAINE
FIGHT INTERNAL CORRUPTION AND
RESIST EXTERNAL AGGRESSION.
CORRECT?
CORRECT?
CORRECT? >> CORRECT.
>> CORRECT. >> AND THIS CONGRESS, I THINK
WITH THE SUPPORT OF EVERYBODY UP
HERE, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS
AND, IN FACT, WITH A SIGNIFICANT
AMOUNT OF REPUBLIC LEADERSHIP,
AUTHORIZED THE RELEASE OF
MILITARY AID, RIGHT?
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> AND YOU AND OTHERS YOU WERE
WORKING WITH BELIEVED IT WAS
IMPORTANT TO THE NEW GOVERNMENT,
PRESIDENT ZELENSKY TO HAVE THAT
WHITE HOUSE MEETING TO SHOW OUR
SUPPORT AND SEND A SIGNAL TO
RUSSIA, CORRECT?
RUSSIA, CORRECT? >> THAT'S CORRECT.
>> AND FROM HEARING YOU AND FROM
HEARING OUR OTHER WITNESSES,
AMBASSADOR YOVANOVITCH, VOLKER
AND TAYLOR, THERE WAS A
CONCERTED TEAM EFFORT ON YOUR
PART TO GET THAT MEETING AND
RELEASE THAT AID, CORRECT?
>> WELL, THERE WAS ALWAYS A
CONCERTED EFFORT ON MY PART TO
GET THE MEETING.
THAT WAS MY SINGULAR NARROW
FOCUS WAS TO GET THE MEETING.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. AND THAT WAS SHARED BY ALL THE
COLLEAGUES I JUST MENTIONED,
CORRECT?
CORRECT?
CORRECT? >> YES.
>> YES.
>> YES. >> AND INCREDIBLY URGENT,
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR DESCRIBED
GOING TO THE FRONT WHERE