>> So are you credited on the records as just JR?
>> There’s like six different kinds of credits.
John Robinson, John JR Robinson, “For Big Daddy …”
I don't even know what the hell that was.
That was back in the Quincy days. [MUSIC]
>> Welcome to 4/4,
where we get in rhythm with our guests by asking
four reverent questions and four not-so-reverent questions.
Our guest today is John JR Robinson.
He has played on thousands of hits.
“Don’t Stop ’Til You Get Enough,”
“Higher Love,” “Express Yourself,”
“We Are the World …” JR,
thanks for joining us today.
>> Thanks for having me.
>> Do you have any idea how many songs you’ve played on?
>> There’s thousands, but these numbers aren’t complete.
What we’re doing now is tracking 3,500 titles just so people know.
In America, we’re still not getting paid royalties for radio play.
We need to figure that out. That will change.
There’s probably over 10,000.
>> In the early days of hip-hop,
there were a lot of people who said, “you can’t copyright a beat.”
That has changed, I believe, in the past maybe 20 years.
Do you see royalties from samples?
>> I do, but not nearly enough.
There should be some sort of accounting to that.
It’s hard to actually rip a bass part off.
If you’re trying to rip off one of the A cats,
they’re always masked in a song,
but the drummers tend to have open space now and then.
A lot of people think that’s theirs for the stealing and it’s not.
Our union is not as strong as it used to be.
Plus there’s a lot more variables.
For them to pay people to go look for
guitar samples or drum samples or Jerry Hey samples,
they’re out there on every song.
This could go back as far as Roger Linn actually borrowing,
[LAUGHTER] stealing, drum sounds for the LM-1.
There you go. I just said it.
>> What’s your favorite drummer joke?
>> How can you tell if the drum riser is even?
>> How?
>> Drool comes out equally out of both sides. [LAUGHTER]
>> What non-musical work of art has had the most impact on you?
>> I don’t know. I guess Monet.
What was it, “Water Lilies”?
A lot of that Monet stuff.
I’ve always had … My dad was an optometrist,
dealing with vision problems,
and if you look at things without your corrective lens,
they tend to look like that.
I think it’s just really beautiful.
>> I remember hearing something about,
you saying [LAUGHTER] some advice that Quincy Jones had given you about cymbals.
Can you tell me that story?
>> There was one specific session that actually rewrote who I was as a drummer.
When I joined Rufus and Chaka Khan in ’78,
I was coming out of Boston thundering and playing 64th notes and thinking,
“I’ve learned a whole bunch of stuff:
I’ve learned all this stuff on piano and I know everything.”
Then I get into the band and they go,
“don’t play that shit.”
It’s what they basically said. I go “what?!”
I go, “I’ve been studying.”
I'm like, “Come on, fusion rules!”
Of course, it didn't.
Well, coming to a Quincy Jones session,
it was probably for “The Dude,”
which was just such a great record.
We were in Westlake A, a real low-ceiling.
We had a first day and David Williams,
by the way, the great guitar player, had already left and joined Madonna.
We ended up getting [Steve] Lukather,
and Lukather became the house guitar player.
A lot of people just think of him as a rock guitar player,
but he’s really so in tune with every kind of music.
So we’re doing a session on Monday and everything’s cool.
They’ve got gobos around me and I had a nice set,
a few toms, a few cymbals, not “big” crap.
The next day, I get up,
it’s a 10 AM start and Lukather—ironically—is there before me,
which was just a miracle in itself.
And he’s laughing at me and he goes,
[LAUGHTER] “JR, look at your drums.”
I go, “What are you talking about? They’re right there.”
But I didn’t look over the gobos and I look and they’re all gone, except the bass drum,
the snare drum, and the hi-hat.
Then Bruce Swedien—big Bruce—comes in.
He goes, “Quincy doesn’t want any fills on this record.”
I just looked at everybody and I go, “Okay!” What are you going to do?
He took everything away. In other words,
if it ain’t there, I can’t hit it.
>> This is the Quiz 500 from 1979.
We’re going to just go until you get one wrong.
It’s all music trivia.
>> Oh, jeez.
>> No, you wouldn’t have been playing on any of these in ’79.
>> Maybe.
>> “I Write the Songs” was a hit for?
>> Barry Manilow.
>> Yup. What type of music do The Brothers Johnson play?
>> Funk? R&B.
>> Yeah, funk. I think it’s listed as funk.
Let me just check. Hang on.
>> Well, they did everything.
They even went down the pop category for a moment.
>> It’s listed as R&B.
What country star is also a coal miner’s daughter?
>> I was supposed to be in that second movie.
What’s her name? Rosanne Cash?
>> Close. Loretta Lynn.
Of all of the soundtrack work that you’ve done,
all the songs that you’ve played on that have been placed in movies,
do you have a favorite scene that comes to mind?
>> Up until the new days with Hans Zimmer,
he would call me personally and ask me if I were to play with another drummer or two,
who would I like to play with?
Which was, jeez, what a cool question.
I didn’t really know how his brain was thinking.
Let’s revert back to “Pirates of the Caribbean II,”
where the Kraken came out of the water. You remember that?
>> Yeah.
>> He called me and he was so adamant about,
“I don't want taiko drums.
Every effing composer’s using taiko drums!
It’s just one-dimensional blah.” He goes, “What I want is
three drummers to emulate that with snares off.”
Who do you want to play with? I got,
I want Abe [Laboriel] Jr., on my right and I want Vinnie [Colaiuta] on my left.
So we go into Streisand Stage.
This is before they were writing the music correctly.
It was stupid computer printouts and it was really hard to read.
By the way, I have video of that session that I haven’t released yet.
I’ll release it at the right time.
But it shows the three of us playing, struggling, being in unison,
rocking, and trying to play this original idea
from Hans Zimmer. Cut to the last five years.
He’s released “Batman v Superman,”
all this great stuff where he would use 14 drummers at first,
and it was interesting because I insisted on being in the middle
so I can see all the other drummers and I’d have Vinnie across from me.
Then everybody else we plugged in, and then we went into a smaller version of that.
Then we went into a semicircle 11-drummer version of that.
All those came out on movies.
That was some of the greatest stuff ever.
Other movies, “First Wives Club.”
The end of that is Goldie Hawn,
Bette Midler, and Diane Keaton, singing
“You Don’t Own Me.”
The Quincy Jones-produced song from ’63 by Lesley Gore.
It was a very cool thing.
And we’re still
trying to get credited, because on movie soundtracks,
it doesn’t even give the musicians.
That’s a slow road.
Hopefully, the people at Berklee or the people that go
into administration once they’re out can help with that.
>> I think those were all good answers,
but I think they’re incorrect.
>> Oh, yeah? You go, baby.
>> The best one is Wilson Phillips’
“Hold On” in “Bridesmaids” with Maya Rudolph.
She even does the air drums!
>> Oh, my God. Jeez.
>> It’s such a good scene!
When you play on a session,
you do what you’re told, but how about when it comes to mixing?
Are there any songs that you wish you could remix,
bring the drums up or bring them down?
>> Yeah, probably both.
There were songs where people I’d worked with from Stephen Stills to Glenn Frey.
I worked with Bob Seger and his stuff was always really fat-sounding.
I’ve heard certain people after records came out that it just wasn’t fat.
Even if you look at “Hold On,”
Glen Ballard was the producer.
There’s some machine parts in there,
but there was still this lack of low end.
It’s almost very Beach Boys-focused, where you knew
there were some happening low-end parts but you couldn’t hear them.
>> I think those drums are great. They’re just so BOOM-BOOM BOOM-BOOM.
>> I guess, yeah, they’re bigger.
It’s true.
I was very fortunate I played on seven of Whitney [Houston]’s singles
and 18 of Michael [Jackson]’s or the Jacksons’ singles.
>> You mentioned the number of Michael Jackson singles you performed on.
“Off the Wall” is a better record than “Thriller.” … Right?! It's not a question.
>> It’s not even debatable.
>> Right.
>> By the way, Bruce and all those engineers,
they won for “Thriller” because they got slapped, from “Off the Wall.”
You had to give it to them. The songs aren’t as good.
>> The sequence, it’s not there.
>> It’s also analog vs. digital.
>> Ahhh, I didn’t know that. Who plays drums on “Thriller”?
>> Well, there’s rumors that I am,
so we’re going to leave those as rumors.
It was, God Bless, Ndugu [Chancler] played on a couple of songs.
Jeff [Porcaro] played on a couple of songs and the rest of it is programmed.
I don’t know if I’m sampled or not.
>> John JR Robinson, thank you for joining us.
>> Pat, it was my honor to be a part of my alma mater.
I had great times when I went to Berklee in
the ’70s and learned. And I’m still very close with a lot of people.
For all the kids out there,
stay behind your passion.
Don’t lose your passion. [MUSIC]