OF A LEGAL HEADACHE, WHICH
INCLUDED A TRIAL IN NEW YORK.
JOINING ME NOW IS U.S. ATTORNEY
AND SENIOR FBI OFFICIAL JEFF
ROSENBERG.
>> Reporter: LET US START THE
SINGULAR IMPORTANCE OF MIKE
PENCE AS A WITNESS.
IF THE SPECIAL COUNSEL IS
LOOKING INTO CRIMES INVOLVING
THE FORMER PRESIDENT, WHERE
WOULD YOU RANK MIKE PENCE
IMPORTANCE AS A WITNESS ON
WHETHER IT IS GETTING IN THE WAY
EITHER INSPIRING THE
INSURRECTION ARE GETTING IN THE
WAY?
>> AT OR NEAR THE TOP OF THE
LIST.
YOU ARE TRYING TO PROVE A CASE
OF A FORMER PRESIDENT'S INTENT.
IT MATTERS A LOT.
HE IS NOT THE ONLY SUBJECT.
I ASSUME THERE ARE OTHERS LIKE
JOHN EISMAN.
YOU WANT TO KNOW, WHAT THEY
DID, WHY THEY DID AND IF THEY
DID IT INTENTIONALLY.
THOSE WITNESSES, LIKE MIKE
PENCE WHO SPOKE DIRECTLY TO THE
PRESIDENT OR SPOKE TO RACKLEY
TO JOHN EASTMAN ARE GOING TO BE
VERY IMPORTANT WITNESSES.
NOT THE ONLY WITNESSES BUT
IMPORTANT WITNESSES.
WE ALSO KNOW THAT THE PAST IS
PROLOGUE THAT WE TALKED TO THE
MINOR WITNESSES, THE LAST
IMPORTANT WITNESSES.
AND YOU SAY THE BIG ONES FOR
LAST.
THAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT IS
HAPPENING.
>> THIS TELLS YOU A CHARGING
DECISION IS COMING.
I EITHER KNOW OR NO GO.
IT GOT TO BE CLOSER THAN WE
THINK.
>> Reporter: WE ARE CLOSER TO
THE END THAN THE BEGINNING BUT
WITH A CAVEAT.
SOMETIMES YOU'D TALK TO MINOR
WITNESSES A, B, AND C AND THEN
YOU TALK TO MAJOR WITNESS D. YOU LEARN SOMETHING NEW AND IT
YOU LEARN SOMETHING NEW AND IT
MAKES YOU GO BACK AND TALK TO A
AND B AGAIN.
IT DOES NOT MEAN WERE AT THE
END.
IT MEANS ARE CLOSER TO THE END
THAN THE BEGINNING.
IT DOES NOT ONLY MEAN THAT THEY
FACE THE CHARGING DECISION
REGARDING MR. TRUMP.
I MENTIONED EARLIER, THERE ARE
OTHER SUBJECTS HERE TOO.
WE DON'T KNOW WHO WILL BE
CHARGED, OR WHAT THEY WILL BE
CHARGED WITH. WE ARE CLOSER TO THE END.
WE ARE CLOSER TO THE END.
>> DO YOU THINK THAT JACK SMITH
COULD GET MIKE PENCE TESTIFY ON
THE PHONE CONVERSATION?
THERE IS THIS PHONE
CONVERSATION, WE KNOW, BETWEEN
TRUMP AND PENCE BETWEEN THE
MORNING OF THE SIXTH.
WE KNOW A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT
THE REACTION OF THE CALL.
WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT WAS SAID
SPECIFICALLY ON THE CALL.
IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT
THE AGREEMENT THAT ALLOWED --
THAT WAS MIKE PENCE TO TESTIFY
-- DOES HE HAVE TO TESTIFY TO
THE CONTENTS OF THAT COLOR NOT
HUMOR
>> Reporter: THAT IS MY
UNDERSTANDING.
THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME, CHUCK.
UNLESS IT IS PRECLUDED BY SOME
PRIVILEGE, WITH EXECUTIVE
PRIVILEGE OR SOME OTHER
PRIVILEGE, LIKE THE FIFTH
AMENDMENT.
I DO NOT SEE PERTAINING ANYWAY
TO MR. PENTZ.
YOU WOULD HAVE TO ANSWER
HONESTLY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT
CONVERSATION. GOING BACK TO
WHAT YOU AND I JUST DISCUSSED,
IT IS CONVERSATION BETWEEN
PENCE AND TRUMP THAT HELP
ILLUMINATE INTENT.
I DON'T SEE A REASON WHY HE
WOULD NOT BE ASKED.
I DO NOT SEE A REASON WHY HE
WOULD BE PERMITTED TO NOT
ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT
CONVERSATION.
I IMAGINE THAT IT WOULD BE VERY
IMPORTANT.
ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, IT IS
GOING TO BE IMPORTANT TO THE
DETERMINATION THAT PROSECUTORS
MAKE.
IT IS NOT MEAN THEY ARE GOING
TO CHARGE.
THAT IS WHAT THEY NEED IN ORDER
TO MAKE THAT DECISION.
>> HEAVEY MAKES A CHARGING
DECISION INVOLVING JANUARY 6th
THAT INVOLVES TRUMP, WHAT IS
THE MOST LIKELY CHARGE?
>> Reporter: THEY ARE LOOKING
AT DIFFERENT AREAS OF CRIME
HERE.
ONE WOULD BE A FALSE -- IT
COULD BE A FRAUD ON THE UNITED
STATES GOVERNMENT OR CONSPIRACY
TO COMMIT THAT CRIME.
OTHERS MIGHT BE FUNDRAISING.
THAT APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN DONE
OFF OF THE STOLEN ELECTION MY.
HARD TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY
ARE GOING TO CHARGE AND WHO
THEY ARE GOING TO CHARGE.
WE DO KNOW THAT THAT SEEMS TO
BE THE FOCUS, THIS EFFORT TO
OVERTURN A FAIR AND FREE
ELECTION THROUGH A FRAUD.
BY THE WAY, CHUCK, IN MY VIEW,
THAT IS AN EXTRAORDINARILY
SERIOUS CRIME.
I HOPE PROSECUTORS ARE TAKING
THEIR TIME.
THEY SEEM TO BE.
THAT IS A GOOD THING, NOT A BAD
THING.
>> I AM CURIOUS WHEN IT COMES
TO INTENT.
THE FORMER PRESIDENT HAS A
FASCINATING WAY THAT HE USES
WORDS.
WHILE HE EXPRESSED, VERY PUBLIC SYMPATHY WITH THE INSURRECTION,
SYMPATHY WITH THE INSURRECTION,
IS THAT ENOUGH TO PROVE INTENT?
>> Reporter: IF THAT IS ALL YOU
HAVE, I WOULD SAY, NO.
THAT IS WHY THESE CONVERSATIONS
ILLUMINATE INTENT AND THAT IS
WHY THEY BECOME IMPORTANT.
IT IS NOT JUST WHAT MR. TRUMP
SAYS THAT HELPS TO ELIMINATE
HIS INTENT.
IT IS WHAT PEOPLE TOLD HIM.
IF I TOLD YOU CERTAIN FACTS,
THEN I COULD PRESUME THAT YOU
KNOW THEM, EVEN IF YOU DO NOT
REPEAT THEM. THE FACT THAT YOU
HAVE BEEN TOLD CERTAIN THINGS
HELPS TO ILLUMINATE YOUR INTENT.
CONVERSATIONS ARE TWO WAY. THAT
IS WHY YOU WANT TO TALK TO
EVERYBODY INVOLVED.
THE MORE PEOPLE WHO HAVE
CONVERSATIONS LIKE THAT WITH
MR. TRUMP, MR. EASTON, WHOEVER
THE SUBJECT MAY BE -- THE MORE
THEY EXPLAINED TO THE GRAND JURY
BOTH END OF THE CONVERSATION,
THE MORE YOU CAN HELP TO
ELIMINATE THE INTENT.
>> CHUCK ROSENBERG, NEWS ALICE,