David Pakman: You'll remember last week we played some video of Pastor Damon Thompson,
who was at a church calling for all young men and women who have gay and lesbian feelings
to come up and allow Jesus to heal them and rid them of those feelings. Let's take a look
at a quick video of that first.
Damon Thompson: But if you're serious about being free, I feel like there's authority
in this place to evict some things in this place. And we can ignore this if we want to,
or we can just go toe-to-toe with that devil by the authority of the name of Jesus.
If that's you anywhere in this building and you have battled, whether you're a girl that
has battled being attracted to girls or a boy that has battled being attracted to boys,
or a man-- whatever, and you want to get set free today, then before you can worry about
anybody else's opinion, I want you to get up here right now. Come. I know it's hard,
but we're with you. Come on, just come stand right here. It's going to happen for you.
Just making the move, it's going to happen for you. Come on. Come on, nobody here to
judge you. Nobody here to judge you. Come on, nobody here to judge you. Just Jesus.
Come on! Come on! There we go, right there, wow. Come on!
David: In the audience that day was Ashton Elijah Pittman, who is joining me now, and
he blogs at www.AshtonElijah.com. And the stories that he has for us I can assure you
are going to be enlightening and shocking at the same time about Pastor Damon Thompson.
Hey, Ashton, how'd you first hear about Damon, and tell us about your first time seeing him
live, live and in action?
Ashton Pittman: Well, my first experience with Damon came when I was... I was in search
of a transition from my old-timey Baptist church where women were second-class and men
were really old-school, and it was just really fake. So I'm introduced to this preacher,
he preaches at a ministry called The Ramp in Hamilton, Alabama, and he has tattoos up
and down his arms, he preaches in a short-sleeve T-shirt, and he wears jeans. And he preaches
against what he calls "religion".
So it was really interesting to me, and it drew me in. So when I found out that he was
going to come preach at a church nearby, I live in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, when I found
out he was preaching at a church here in Hattiesburg, I wanted to go. So I went with some friends.
This was in 2008, I believe. Yeah, 2008.
So I went and it was very different. There was basically a mosh pit at the front of the
church during the worship service, kids 13 to 20, and he preached with this intense passion,
but it was... at first it was really great, but then I heard him, after a few services,
he came several times, after a few services, I heard him use the word "queer".
And when he said that, he said... he said call them "queers", don't call them "gay",
because that sounds nice. You want to call them something that denotes that they're abominable
and that they're awful. So that's when I started to lose favor with him... or, when he lost
favor with me.
David: So you're 21 now, you were... this was a few years ago, so you were about 18
at the time. The people in there are about 13 to 20. Was it common that he would call
for people to come forward who are having gay or lesbian feelings or attractions to
people of the same sex? Was that a common thing? We saw that one video where you were
there, but was that an everyday occurrence?
Pittman: Oh, yeah, that's every service. But it's not just that, sometimes it's about porn,
sometimes it's about girls that sleep around. It's really all kinds of things, but he harps
a lot on the gay and lesbian issue, for sure. He harps on that a lot.
David: And so you actually went out and you started blogging about what it was that you
saw there at www.AshtonElijah.com, and there was... there was blowback basically right
away from this, was there not?
Pittman: Right. Some people from the church where he comes and preaches here in Hattiesburg,
which is about three and a half to four hours away from The Ramp, some people from this
church became very upset because they're very close to him, and they actually model their
church after his... after his ministry at The Ramp. They became very upset. I started
getting messages. I found out they were having conversations about me over Facebook. And
basically, I got a lot of messages warning me that God's wrath was going to come upon
me, and basically that I might even get struck dead for it, so...
David: Well, hey, listen, Shirley Phelps-Roper from the Westboro Baptist Church has given
me that same warning, and so far I'm OK, so try not to take it to heart literally.
The part that is more concerning, though, is that, you know, you've been blogging, you're
talking about this now on our show, and you're going into a lot of detail about what goes
on there. Damon Thompson has been ignoring my requests for interviews, he's put out a
statement which says context is necessary to really understand what he was saying. I
don't... can't imagine what that context might be. Are you somewhat worried about increased
backlash against you? I mean, what could happen?
Pittman: I'm not really that worried. These aren't violent people, even if their rhetoric's
violent, and really, honestly, any friends I'm going to lose I've already lost. Damon
has been talking about... he's referenced me, not directly using my name, but he's referenced
me at The Ramp since. He's actually admonished his charge. He's told them that he thinks
it's sad that a bunch of queers get his message out to hundreds of thousands of people, but
they can't even get it to their neighbors.
So Damon's mentioned me several times. He's going on on The Ramp and basically made himself
out to be persecuted. So anyone who's going to be upset with me already knows, so I'm
not too worried.
David: So when people... when these kids identify themselves, they go up to the front of the
church and they start crying and falling down, and you've indicated to me that that's...
it's all for real, these are all people you know, they're not actors, they're not bringing
them in for show.
Pittman: It's genuine.
David: What kind of follow-up is there afterwards? In other words, do they end up meeting personally
with Damon? Do we have any reason to believe that there's further, quote, "counseling"
or therapy for their gain is going on?
Pittman: I know he goes down and he talks to them, and I know he's told them that they
need to fight this so-called "demon" together. I know that he goes down and prays with them.
I don't know if he follows up with them after, but I do know that for those who actually
join The Ramp Ministry and who are all on-stage, those young adults and teens who join, I know
that he considers them... there's several of them, actually, who call themselves former
homosexuals.
And his idea is that the reason they are homosexual in the first place is because they missed
a father in their life, so he becomes what he calls their "spiritual father", and to
him, that's his way of helping gay kids become straight, is by giving them the father that
he thinks they never had.
David: So this is very reminiscent of very typical ex-gay counseling-type stories that
we've seen. I saw one somewhat recently on, I think on CNN, on Anderson Cooper, and in
that one, it's the same narrative, that the idea is gay... by the way, no mention of lesbians
at all, as is very common with much of the ex-gay-type stuff, that gay men become gay
because they never had a strong heterosexual figure, typically their father.
The particular story I saw on CNN involved the therapist actually cuddling with the ex-gay
individual to show them that they can have a non-gay relationship, including touching,
with their patient, for lack of a better term. So this is all wrapped up, it's a very similar
narrative that you're saying Damon Thompson is involved in, maybe not with the cuddling.
Pittman: Right, not with the cuddling, but it can be very homoerotic. They will cry on
each other's shoulders, hug and hold each other, and pray for maybe sometimes 10 to
15 minutes just squeezing each other and slobbering all over one another. It's... sometimes it
can appear very homoerotic, and... yeah, absolutely.
David: Is there any discussion, like did you say to any of your friends who were there,
you know, this is-- isn't this a little weird, guys? I mean, on one hand, there's this story
being told about how, quote, "queers" are abominable, but at the same time, there's
a very homoerotic nature to what this guy's doing. I mean, was that discussed among your
peers?
Pittman: No, really... it's really strange, because the people that warmed to this, to
The Ramp, they come from a church where they model the way they do things after The Ramp.
They call it The Firehouse, and it's very... I mean, they're just copying The Ramp. So
they're used to it, it's normal for them. That's how they do things.
David: Is anti-gay bullying acceptable in these church circles?
Pittman: I would say that in the South in general, you can... you can say that homosexuality's
wrong in a church, but what you can't do is you can't out kids in church. You can't use
words like queer and faggot. But in churches like this, where it's really charismatic,
there's a lot of high-energy preaching, a lot of music, it's OK. The kids, they consider
themselves to be an emerging army imposing the kingdom of God offensively. That's how
they describe it on their website. So to use these kind of terms isn't a big deal at all
to them, because they're fighting the devil, in their minds.
David: Have you had interactions with people who have been affected in a very clearly negative
way by these rantings from Damon Thompson in the sense that they're... they end up getting
singled out and bullied more, that they end up having thoughts of suicide? I mean, are
these... are these the actual results of some of this Damon Thompson activity?
Pittman: Yes, actually, since I wrote the blog and put since I put the video up, I've
had a lot of emails, and some of them have been from people who have been affected personally
by his ministry.
Some people as far as 15 years back who got into his ministry because he promised that
they were basically going to be his end-time army, this generation that was just going
to lead the way towards the Great Awakening before the End of Time, and they told me how
he would drag them to this point where they would get so excited and tell them they were
free, and then they would just crash, because they would realize that it wasn't happening.
And here you are, 15 years later, some of these people, and they're still gay. They're
still, you know, they're still all of these things, and... but because of what he did,
they've gone through psychological torment over the years, and it's really awful. So
yes, that's the impact of what he does, for sure.
David: Well, the invitation to Damon Thompson to come on the show is still wide open. If
you're listening to this, info@damonthompson.com is his email, tell him you've seen this interview,
tell him you want to see him come on and give us whatever context it is that we seem to
be lacking when we see him calling for the gay and lesbian teens to identify themselves
in church.
And you can also read Ashton's work at www.AshtonElijah.com. Ashton Elijah Pittman we've been speaking
with. Thanks so much for shedding light on this, and, you know, let me know if... if
you start getting more blowback as a result of this interview, please let me know and
we'll make it known, because it's a story that has to be told.
Pittman: Will do. Thank you.
David: OK, thanks, Ashton.
Transcript provided by Alex Wickersham and www.Subscriptorium.com. For transcripts, translations,
captions, and subtitles, or for more information, visit www.Subscriptorium.com, or contact Alex
at subscriptorium@gmail.com.