Cronkite school of journalism at
Arizona state university.
Geoff: Former president Donald
Trump raises question -- the
indictment of former president
Donald Trump raises questions.
New York Times columnist David
brooks and Ruth Marcus,
columnist at the Washington
post.
Before we jump into the details
of this case, I would like to
have you reflect on the gravity
of this moment.
>> I think gravity is really the
right word to use.
It's a somber sobering moment
for the country.
We have never been to this place
before.
We have been on the brink.
Nixon was almost indicted.
People forget Clinton faced the
prospect of indictment.
And reached a plea deal.
But we have never crossed this
rubicon.
I think it's important that we
did it on this set of facts.
I thought that was true before I
saw the indictment.
There can't be one set of laws
-- one set of laws has to cover
everybody.
So I'm relieved that the rule of
law looks like it's prevailing
here, but that relief is really
tempered by sadness that we had
a president of the United States
at a potential future president
that has brought us to this
terrible state.
And also real sadness about the
volcanic response, just inherent
instinctive supportive nests,
political polarization from his
party and what that's going to
mean for an already divided
country that's going to be
further polarized.
>> -- Geoff: A sad day.
How do you view it?
>> This morning I was blase.
And then when the indictment
came out, I was like there is
always another layer down with
this guy.
What shocked me in particular
was the nuclear programs, our
own vulnerabilities, sharing our
Iran plans with buddies on the
golf course.
I don't see those as documents.
Those are human beings.
Those are American lives.
People helping the United States
around the world put at risk.
American soldiers and Marines
and airmen put at risk.
So the lack of reverence and
responsibility for the people
serving under his command is
just so offensive.
And then I had this thought --
he's just a mean boy.
He's like an eight-year-old boy.
He wanted these documents for
some willful reason.
Could not admit error.
My friend said whenever there is
a situation where Donald Trump
has to be equal with everybody,
he will ride roughshod over that
system.
And behave in a way so that I'm
not equal to everybody else.
It's just me.
It's Greek in its exposure of
his character flaws.
Geoff: A south Florida grand
jury brought this indictment.
Special counsel jack Smith's
decision to bring charges in
what is effectively Donald
Trump's home turf, what do you
see as the political
significance of that?
>> I think there is potential
legal and political significance
that combine.
When Donald Trump is cornered,
he yells rigged.
It's a rigged jury, election,
judge.
This won't stop him from yelling
that, but when he has this judge
who is clearly not just a trump
appointee so trump empathetic in
her previous pass at this case,
it's going to be harder for him
to try to smear her as some
apparatchik of the justice
department.
And similarly with the jury,
it's a south Florida jury.
It's going to be harder for him
to complain, although he will,
about unfair treatment from
them.
I think that actually strangely
helps prosecutors tamp down some
of the public reaction to the
case.
Geoff: What about that?
It makes it harder for Donald
Trump to make the argument.
That he is being railroaded when
it's happening on his home turf.
>> You went to law school, I
didn't.
I don't know how you get a fair
jury.
Is anybody in this country not
have an opinion about Donald
Trump?
I don't know how that's going to
work.
He's going to make the argument
and a lot of people are going to
accept the argument.
Your job is to take this day and
say, that is not -- this guy is
not qualified to be president.
Ron Desantis and Rick Scott are
all jumping on the weaponizing
the justice system, Mike Lee in
the senate.
Glenn Youngkin, the supposedly
mature and moderate governor of
Virginia said selective
prosecution.
So the party is rallying around.
One of the things Donald Trump
has been having trouble doing is
raising money.
The thing he knows that will
help him raise money is getting
indicted.
He got indicted in New York and
raised $12 million.
As soon as that comes down, he
is got a video, the direct mail.
He's using this as a political
gift, which for the time being
it seems to be at least in the
Republican party.
>> We knew he would, but the
really sickening thing is the
rest of the party rallying
around him.
We all know they are doing it
because they understand it to be
in their political
self-interest.
If I had a superpower, I would
wield it to ban the word
weaponization.
What's going on here is the
opposite of the weaponization of
the weaponization of the justice
department.
Merrick Garland stepped aside
from this case and brought in a
career prosecutor.
The weaponization of the justice
department happened under the
former guy, not this guy.
Geoff: The alleged offenses
strike at the core of some of
the most somber duties of the
presidency including the
protection of the country's most
vital secrets.
But Donald Trump's rivals are
willing to overlook that, how do
they make an argument for their
candidacies and what does that
say about the field given this
is the job to which they are
applying?
>> I think it says something
about the field but it also
simultaneously says something
about the base and something
about Donald Trump's hold on a
significant part of his party's
voters.
We are going to find out.
He could get indicted in the
middle of fifth avenue and
continue to be teflon and not be
affected by this.
I'm really curious what David
thinks about this about whether
the sheer weight of these
numerous indictments, I am not a
fan of the Manhattan indictment
but that is there, we are
probably going to see something
in Georgia relating to January 6
and there could be more after
that.
At some point will the
Republican party base say enough
is enough, we can't risk a third
try with this guy?
There's no evidence of that so
far.
As the rest of the party just
reflexively rallies around trump
, the leaders, I think that
makes it less likely that we
will see that more healthy
reaction.
Geoff: How do you think this
will play out in the race?
We have never seen American
president face charges as he's
trying to recapture the white
house.
>> The Republican party is
always about to tire of Donald
Trump in that day never arrives.
He's clearly stronger now than
he was six months ago.
The first indictment fairly help
10.
I don't think this one will help
him in part because there are a
lot of military folks in the
Republican party and they know
how serious classified
information is.
I think there will be some
lingering effect.
The only way it could possibly
hurt Donald Trump is not
somebody saying, see, he is a
bad guy.
You could make the case, he is
just got so much baggage.
He's a great guy but he just
can't win in the fall.
You can make that argument
without getting in the way of
the core trump narrative.
The they are out to get us
narrative is thick in the
Republican party, with a lot of
justification, by the way.
Geoff: The white house was
taking a business as usual
approach to these decidedly
abnormal circumstances.
President Biden was giving a
speech about his legislative
agenda when word of this
indictment came down.
Is there a risk of the message
getting drowned out?
>> If you had a gun to my head I
could not have told you what Joe
Biden was doing today.
Of course their messages going
to get drowned out on a day like
today.
Is it terrible for a white house
to have its message drowned out
by the news that its chief
opponent is being indicted on
very serious charges?
Is handling the most highly
classified information,
obstructing justice, lying to
federal investigators.
That's not a bad news day for
the white house to have whatever
it was doing, infrastructure or
whatever you talked about.
I think president Biden is doing
precisely the right thing by
business as usual.
This is not his thing.
He's not commenting on it.
He's not anywhere near it.
Geoff: President Biden told
reporters that he has not and
will not talk to the attorney
general about this.
>> That's appropriate.
I think Biden is underexposed.
His staff is still protective of
him.
He is much murder and public
than a lot of people think.
I do think they need to get --
let him get out more.
It's not good for the presidency
for him to be that much in the
shadow of Donald Trump.
Geoff: Couldn't he tell the
staff if he felt that way?
If he agreed with you, could not
he tell them I don't need to be
so protected?
>> You would think so.
From what I hear inside the
white house, he is not a
doddering old grandpa.
He can be a very tough boss and
a mean guy.
Maybe he wants to be as quiet
and enclosed as he has been.
Geoff: David brooks and Ruth
Marcus, thank you for being with
us from this historic into the
week.
-- End to the week.