ALL RIGHT, LAURA, MOIRA.
DO I HAVE THAT CORRECT?
>> YES.
>> YOU GOT IT RIGHT.
>> Stephen: FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE NOT WATCHED YOUR
DOCUMENTARY SERIES YET, "MAKING A MURDERER," LET ME GIVE A
SUMMARY AND SEE IF I LEAVE ANYTHING OUT THAT'S NECESSARY
FOR OUR CONVERSATION.
STEVEN AVERY IS CONVICTED IN 1985 OF A RAPE AND GOES TO JAIL
FOR 18 YEARS.
HE'S EXONERATED WHEN D.N.A.
PROVES SOMEONE ELSE COMMITTED CRIME, AND HE'S FREED.
ON HIS RELEASE, HE SUES THE LOCAL POLICE FOR $36 MILLION.
IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT CASE, HE'S ACCUSED OF A MURDER AND THE SAME
LOCAL POLICE ARE HEAVILY INVOLVE INSIDE GATHERING EVIDENCE
AGAINST HIM.
YOUR FILM FOLLOWS THE TRIALS OF AVERY AND HIS NEPHEW, BRENDAN
DASSEY.
DID I LEAVE ANYTHING OUT THAT WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TO KNOW BEFORE
WE GO ON?
>> NO, I WISH WE HAD MET YOU 10 YEARS AGO.
YOU WOULD HAVE SAVED US A LOT OF TIME, ACTUALLY.
>> Stephen: THAT'S AN IMPORTANT POINT.
YOU HAVE WORKED ON THIS FOR 10 YEARS.
HOW DID YOU FIRST LEARN THE STORY OF STEVEN AVERY?
>> SO, IT WAS BACK IN NOVEMBER OF 2005, AND STEVEN AVERY
APPEARED ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES" AND THE
HEADLINE READ, "FREED BY D.N.A.
NOW CHARGED IN NEW CRIME."
AND WE WERE IMMEDIATELY FASCINATED BY THE HEADLINE AND
WENT ON TO READ THE STORY AND UNDERSTAND THAT STEVEN WAS IN
THIS INCREDIBLE POSITION OF HAVING SERVED 18 YEARS IN PRISON
FOR A CRIME HE DID NOT COMMIT.
HE BECAME ONE OF WISCONSIN'S FIRST D.N.A. EXONRIES, AND
WITHIN TWO YEARS OF HIS RELEASE WAS CHARGED WITH MURDER.
>> Stephen: A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOK AT THE DOCUMENTARY SERIES
AND THEY LOOK AT IT AS A, YOU KNOW, A WHO DONE IT.
BUT THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE YOUR INTENTION IN MAKING IT?
WHY DID YOU MAKE THIS?
WHAT DO YOU HOPE THE MESSAGE OF THE DOCUMENTARY IS.
>> WE LIKE TO SAY IT'S MORE A "HOW DONE IT."
WHAT WE WERE DOCUMENTING IS THE PROCESS, AND THAT'S CHA JUSTICE
IS, IT'S A PROCESS.
SO CAN WE RELY ON THESE VERDICTS AT THE END.
>> Stephen: ONE OF THE THINGS PEOPLE TAKE AWAY FROM WATCHING
THE DOCUMENTARY IS THAT POOR PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A GREAT SHOT
IN OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM, THAT THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO
REPRESENTATION.
HE HAS ACCESS TO GREAT REPRESENTATION BECAUSE HE'S
ALREADY WON A VERDICT THAT GOT HIM $100,000 HE COULD USE TO PAY
LAWYERS.
BUT THAT POOR PEOPLE OFTEN GET RAILROADED THROUGH THE SYSTEM.
DO YOU SEE ANY HOPE FROM THIS DOCUMENTARY?
BECAUSE IT'S A FAIRLY BLEAK STORY.
I'M ONLY ON EPISODE SEVEN, NO SPOILERS.
EVERYTHING WORKS OUT OKAY, RIGHT?
EVERYBODY IS HAPPY AT THE END?
>> KEEP GOING.
KEEP GOING.
>> Stephen: DO YOU GET ANY SENSE OF HOPE FROM THIS?
>> I THINK YOU DO.
I MEAN, THE PEOPLE IN THE SERIES HAVE NOT GIVEN UP HOPE.
AND, I MEAN, WE UNDERSTAND THAT FOR VIEWERS, THIS CAN BE
OVERWHELMING.
I MEAN, WE'RE THROWING A LOT AT YOU, AND IT CAN BE TERRIFYING
WHAT YOU SEE.
>> Stephen: THE TERRIFYING THING IS THAT YOU COULD END UP
ACCUSED OF SOMETHING YOU HAVE NOT DONE AND HAVE NO WAY TO
DEFEND YOURSELF.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THIS COULD HAPPEN TO ANY ONE OF US, AND GOOD LUCK IF THAT
HAPPENS.
>> Stephen: YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE THE SUBJECT OF ONE OF YOUR
DOCUMENTARIES IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> Stephen: REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE INTENTION OF IT WAS, PEOPLE
ARE SAYING-- PEOPLE ARE DEBATING ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES,
AFTER WATCHING YOUR DOCUMENTARY, IS HE GUILTY OR NOT?
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
>> I MEAN, MY PERSONAL OPINION IS THAT THE STATE DID NOT MEET
ITS BURDEN EITHER IN STEVEN AVERY'S CASE OR BRENDAN DASSEY'S
CASE.
SO I WOULD SAY, IN MY OPINION, NOT GUILTY.
>> Stephen: IN YOUR OPINION?
>> I MEAN, I PRETTY MUCH AGREE WITH LAURA.
>> Stephen: IS THAT BECAUSE YOU DON'T THINK HIGHS GUILTY OR
THEY HAVEN'T-- BECAUSE WHO AM I TO SAY?
WITHOUT GIVING ANYTHING WAY, THERE ARE THINGS, IF YOU CAN'T
GET RID OF THAT EVIDENCE, IF YOU CAN'T DISCOUNT THAT EVIDENCE,
THERE'S BLOOD, THERE'S BONES, THERE'S LOCATION, ALL THOSE
THINGS SAY WELL IT'S REASONABLE TO ME TO CONSIDER THIS PERSON AT
LEAST A SUSPECT FOR IT.
YOU KNOW, IS IT THE IDEA THAT WE'VE GOT GUILTY OR NOT GUILTY
IN OUR SYSTEM AS OPPOSED TO PROVEN OR NOT PROVEN?
>> THAT'S A GREAT POINT.
ABSOLUTELY.
I MEAN, THERE ARE THINGS THAT HE COULD BE GUILTY, BUT IS HE
GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT?
NOTHING I'VE SEEN-- AND I'VE SEEN A LOT OF STUFF-- NOTHING
I'VE SEEN HAS CONVINCED ME OF THAT.
>> Stephen: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE YOUR NEXT
DOCUMENTARY ON, SOMETHING LIKE CUCKOO CLOCK MAKERS OR ICE
DANCING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
( LAUGHTER ) HAS IT BEEN HARD TO LIVE WITH
THIS STORY FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME?
>> I WOULD LOVE TO FOLLOW FLORENCE AND THE MACHINE, BUT I
HAVEN'T REACHED OUT TO HER YET.
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ).
>> Stephen: THAT'S NICE.
HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE SUCCESS OF THIS?
BECAUSE IT HAS BECOME-- YOU ARE HAVING A MOMENT RIGHT NOW FOR
YOUR WORK, BUT IS IT DIFFICULT TO ENJOY THE LEVEL OF SUCCESS
YOU'RE HAVING WITH THIS WHEN YOU KNOW AT THE HEART OF IT THERE'S
A TRAGEDY, FOR THE FAMILY WHO LOST A DAUGHTER AND FOR THE MAN
WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE FALSELY ACCUSED?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
WE FEEL LIKE THERE ARE NO WINNERS HERE.
WHAT WE HOPE TO ACHIEVE BY SHARING THIS STORY WITH AS MANY
PEOPLE AS WE CAN IS REALLY TO TRY TO ENGAGE AMERICANS AND FOR
PEOPLE TO FEEL A SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY AND TO UNDERSTAND
THEIR OWN AGENCY HERE.
FOR INSTANCE, IF WE SEE SOMEONE IN A PERP WALK ON TELEVISION, WE
CAN CHECK OURSELVES AND TRY TO RESERVE JUDGMENT ABOUT THAT
PERSON BECAUSE AT THAT POINT, THAT PERSON STANDS AS AN
ACCUSED, HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN GUILTY.
>> Stephen: WELL, I MEAN, HOPEFULLY ONE POSITIVE OUTCOME
OF THIS COULD BE MORE PEOPLE TAKING AN INTEREST IN OUR
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM OR MAYBE MORE YOUNG PEOPLE WANTING TO BE
DEFENDERS OF PEOPLE WHO GET PULLED INTO OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM
BECAUSE WITHOUT PROPER REPRESENTATION YOU JUST BECOME A
COG IN THE MACHINE.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> Stephen: WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, STEPHEN.
>> Stephen: LAURA RICCIARDI, AND MOIRA DEMOS, "MAKING A
MURDERER" IS STREAMING RIGHT NOW ON NETFLIX.
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.