-Our first guest is Carol Tobias.
She's a supporter of the movement
to end abortion rights in America,
and she's the president
of the National Right to Life Committee.
Welcome. Thank you for joining us.
I want to start off by talking about Senator Graham's bill
that would ban abortion after 15 weeks of pregnancy.
You were there with him, Ms. Tobias,
at the press conference where he announced it.
So, does that mean the National Right to Life
is comfortable with abortions up to 15 weeks?
-Our position for many, many years
has been to protect as many babies as possible
as soon as possible.
This would be certainly one step in that right direction.
So yes, we do support this bill.
-But what about abortions up to 15 weeks?
-Oh, we will support legislation that's going to protect babies.
Certainly we will support earlier restrictions.
This was a bill that Senator Graham wanted to introduce,
and actually, it's been sitting in Congress for 10 years.
It was a bill that would protect babies
who would develop to the point where they can feel pain,
starting at 20 weeks.
But research now shows that that's moved back
to at least 15 weeks, maybe earlier.
So that is the bill that Senator Graham introduced.
-I know that you've been supportive of that legislation
that Senator Graham has introduced
and brought up before.
I'm trying to understand how your organization
and others like it are thinking about abortions
that happen in those earlier weeks and months.
You call it babies. Many people would say a fetus.
Some people even say a collection of cells
in the very early parts of a pregnancy.
So what about people who say, "Okay.
Well, what about that early phase?"
Are you okay with allowing abortion?
If the ban is after 15 weeks, what about those first weeks?
-We know that --
and it's scientific, biological evidence --
a new life begins at the moment of fertilization.
So someone can call it, you know, a fetus,
a zygote, a clump of cells.
That doesn't take away from the fact
that this is a human being that we are talking about --
a newly created human being.
And yes, we support legislation at all stages of pregnancy.
We want to protect the babies. We want to protect their moms.
And we will support a variety of legislation
because we don't want anyone to die.
-So let's talk about the mothers and women who could die
if they don't have an abortion.
We just heard this very powerful piece coming out of Texas.
What would you say to someone
who is forced to travel across state lines or do something
because they feel their abortion is medically necessary
to save their life?
-There is no state in the union that would prevent an abortion
if the mother's life is in danger.
I know people are saying that, you know,
she could die if she doesn't get the abortion.
If that's the case, she can get the abortion.
There is no state in the union
that does not allow the removal of ectopic pregnancies
or does not allow miscarriages to be treated.
There are a lot of -- I'll just say it -- lies
flying around right now.
And I think, you know, maybe it'll take a little while,
but we need people to understand the truth --
that if her life is in danger, she can get the abortion.
-I just have to push back on that,
because The Washington Post and other news outlets
have talked to people who have had to travel across state lines
and get into perilous situations
because doctors just weren't quite sure what to do.
-That's what, quite frankly, I don't understand.
That's why someone goes to medical school.
That's why they become an OB-GYN,
and that's what they learn in school,
is how to treat pregnancies.
They understand if it is an ectopic pregnancy,
if it is a miscarriage.
They should be able to take care of that.
I've certainly talked to a lot of doctors
who will say, you know, they know what to do.
That's what they trained for.
So I don't know if these doctors are just being hypersensitive
or if they are trying to use this to make a point,
to try to further the abortion industry.
But any woman should be able to get treated
for an ectopic pregnancy and miscarriage,
because there is nobody that is prosecute for that.
-What do you think about the Texas laws,
places that are essentially deputizing
everyone from an Uber driver to other people --
Well, let me rephrase that, Carol.
What do you think about the Texas law and other states
that are potentially criminalizing someone
who just gives someone a ride?
Maybe that's some of the hesitation doctors have
if anyone is sort of deputized to go after them
or accuse them of something.
-I think we've got -- I know we do.
We've got 50 states.
Justice Brandeis many years ago called the states
"the laboratories of democracy."
So I think we've got 50 states,
and we're gonna have different experiments in various states.
Some, if it doesn't work, it's gonna change.
Someone else might, you know,
take something like that but make their own changes.
And -- And we'll see what happens.
-Many activists on both sides -- Let me start that again.
Many activists have said this is an issue best left to states,
so where does that national abortion ban fit into that?
-We support legislation to protect unborn children
at both federal and state levels.
So we're gonna work with whatever entity
is gonna help us protect babies.
-And finally, Ms. Tobias, some Republicans are running away
from Lindsey Graham's legislation out of fear
that it will mobilize voters against them in November.
What's your response to that?
-We have a lot of intelligent, independent candidates,
and they're gonna have a variety of ways of how they want to --
what they want to do to protect unborn children.
We've seen election after election --
When people come out to vote on the abortion issue,
when they vote for or against candidates
because of this issue,
pro-life people have always come out in stronger numbers.
Now, I'm sure the other side is going to be motivated this year,
but I know pro-lifers are just as energetic.
So I don't think there's going to be a backlash
against our candidates because of their pro-life position.
-Carol Tobias,
president of the of National Right to Life Committee.
Thank you for your time.