Illustrated Alum and Arthur author. See that water of one
of the
best books. I have read this year, blood in the garden,
Chris herring, in the building. What is up.
Thank you for having me. And for the, the really Pleasant
introduction, I appreciate you.
One of the best books I have read this year. One of the best
sports books. I've read, you know, my entire life. If you
guys have not checked that book out, even if you're not a mixed
fan, if you were just a basketball.
Easiest historian you will love, love. Love what Chris did
with that book but guys, let's react. Sean's James Harden,
taking a 15 million dollar, pay cut showing that he is not
the selfish player that a lot of people have tried to make him
out to be.
What are you guys making that Crystal start with you?
I think it's a nice framing.
He was always kind of not won't say always, but for the last
few weeks, it's kind of been reported that he would take
something in the low to mid 30s
for next season.
It's I mean, he did not play well
at the end of last year, if it was injury, if it was
lack of enthusiasm,
you know, each time
from Brooklyn when Kyrie was out and
and obviously Kevin Durant was hurt to then the
Situation where he goes to Philly and then, and beat his
out because of, you know, basically other space broken,
hardened ended up being the guy, and the whole reason he
went to Brooklyn part of it at least was so that he would
not have to be the guy.
So for whatever reason, he looked poor last year, he
didn't look good, he's starting to age so the longevity play
for somebody like him at that point is on some level.
An opportunity to kind of prove these worth more than what he
showed last year
and also as he's starting to get older to kind of It's
someone that will commit more years to him for less money.
More years, it's still 30 plus million. A year
is better than one year, 47 million, and then rest to see
that. He's not good anymore. I don't think that he's not good
anymore, but he did take a really bad step back last
season. So this is an opportunity for him to kind of
guarantee and lock himself into more money if he wants it that
way
and yeah, I guess you could view it as being generous as well.
But
I think this was always kind of the most realistic step for him
as opposed to just opting into a one year. Deal.
Here's
my the right on the head right there, James Hart. James Harden
is fresh from Michael Rubens. All white party in
the Hamptons. You think he said a little something-something on
the side like hey let me talk to you real quick.
I know we're at a party but let's let's talk some business
real quick. I need you to take a pay cut because you didn't
show me what you needed to show me. And if you show me what you
need to show me that we can go ahead and reassess this later
down the road. Let's
go have a drink. We'll talk about this later on, after
the fourth know, they didn't need to have that conversation. The
film speaks for itself. I mean, we're talking about 15 million
dollar, pay cut James Harden, could have signed for
the mid-level the
way he was playing. I mean, we're talking about a two-time
MVP player who just kind of like fell off and we saw it
happening in Brooklyn, you know, but, you know, some
people will say, okay, well, he didn't want to be there. He was
dogging. It. No, he came in out of shape, we saw him turning
the ball over uncharacteristically, field
goal, percentage was poor,
and then you thought that a change of scenery would improve
those numbers and it was just inconsistent. I think what? As
soon as he got to fill, Lee you started seeing some of those
numbers pick up and then you started seeing them taper off.
Again
obviously I was joking about mid-level. We all know what
caliber player James Harden is. But the idea that he's being
generous by giving back 15 million know that's about
market value for a player, his age who's clearly being worn
down right now,
I'm interested to see what version of James Harden. We're
going to get this season. Are we going to get the one? Who we
remember attacking everybody getting to the rim hitting,
step back threes, are we going to see the guy who we saw in
Brooklyn? We saw in Philadelphia this year which is
a facilitator.
To get everybody else involved. I hope for his sake. We see
a very good mix of the two different James Harden's we've
seen because that team is going to need him to be aggressive if
they're going to win a championship this year,
let me pose this question to the both of you. We look at The
Saga of James Harden from last season, right? And Brooklyn,
there was a lot of chaos on the court off the court, obviously
Kyrie Irving, a part-time Player thing. It went ahead and
affected
the chemistry of the team.
Kevin Durant was dealing with injury and things like that.
James Harden, as you said, God wasn't in the best of shape but
not them. Not being able to play together was probably
a huge Catalyst in the reason
why that team did not work at the speed in which it was
intended to work, right? But then you go to the 76ers and
you have a couple of glimpses of him where it looks like him
and be automatically have a better chemistry
but again wasn't a lot of time to go ahead and get that
implemented either than Joelle and bean gets hurt. In
the playoffs.
James are now has to carry the load with a team. He's not
familiar. With with a system and a coach he has not been, it
does having a full season change your opinion on what
James Harden will be able to do
absolutely. You know I think
you know covering the Nets and realizing how important
training camp was for them and them not having it not having
Kyrie Irving for that training camp. You know, that kind of
derailed their season
having James Harden in a training camp. Having this
roster full in training camp for Philly. It's going to work
wonders for them. I think going to help everybody settle into
their roles.
I think we still got to figure out whether even Tobias Harris
is going to be part of this team moving forward. But once
that roster is set and you've got everybody in training camp.
Now, you're going to have everybody just understanding
their roles, understanding
their position on the floor.
I can't wait. I want to see what the six is. Look like
because to your point Joellen, bead and Joe and James Harden
James Harden on the floor together. I mean, that's a Duo
made in basketball heaven, right? You got the perimeter
threat, you got the post threat. I mean, who doesn't
want to
see that but we just want it to work. Chris, I'm wondering if
You think that this is something that can go further
than what we've seen which is just been what second round.
That's it is way he's weighing his options.
Yeah
I mean
I was given I would say for the sake of the show I'll just take
the opposite stands. I think the opposite stance is kind of
the one I would take naturally anyway though
maybe we can attribute the struggles last year to the fact that
the free-throw not the free-throw rules but
the obviously the rules that related to kind of trying to
draw thousand tension Ali
and
Creating contact that that was going to really impact somebody
like him and a tray, young or Luka Don church and stuff like
that. So he wasn't getting to the line as much he struggled.
Just, you know, he throws up a lot of junk, a lot of sense,
trying to get Val call. So he was
missing a lot of those shots.
Try to draw fouls,
he just didn't look great to start the season. You know, if
it was injury or just being slowed and hampered by certain
things,
if it was the Kyrie wasn't there. Whatever the case was he
went to Philly and look, good, like you said for those five or
six games where they were untouchable,
And then he kind of came back down to Earth. But who can
forget the fact that when the playoffs rolled around?
Yes, some of it was on his own particular in that Heat series
when indeed was out. But even once he came back and beat
said, we kind of need more from James and, you know, as much as
I really want to believe in Billy
as much as I really want to believe in James Harden,
the playoff
Boogeyman, I wouldn't even call it Boogeyman where it's a real
thing for him. It's just not a stage that he generally
performs. Really, really great on at least. Least in
the latter stages
of the postseason, I do think their roster around him
is improved,
I'm curious to see what happens like Christian was saying about
is there. Another move that they make is Tobias Harris,
part of this team and he's not, he's got a massive salary that
you're going to probably be getting a couple of things back
for him, that maybe fit the team better,
so it's possible. I just don't know if all of it would be
because of James Harden. If they take a step forward, he
would be a part of it. But I don't know if he's the biggest
reason that they would make the jump forward. I think this
roster around him is approved.
I want to go to the top of the pyramid for a second and talk
about Doc Rivers because it was reported towards the end of
the 76ers season that Doc Rivers and James Harden did not have
a good chemistry.
It was no secret that James Harden was
rallying for Dan and Tony to get that job in the event. That
Doc Rivers were to leave and go elsewhere. Obviously, that
didn't happen. He is still the head coach of the 76ers
but I'm interested. You have a guy who has already
a player-coach, Nation ship, that did not seem to have any type
of chemistry.
They were on two separate pages. Doc Rivers did not seem
to know how to even utilize James Harden and a lot of
the right situations at a lot of the right times. Does that fix
itself or is that relationship something that you're very
worried about going into next season, simply because they're
two totally different
styles of people
and that result in two totally different styles of viewing
the game.
I'll say this. I watched James Harden play basketball under
Steve, Nash, you know, and I think
Doc Rivers is a different category of head coach. Listen, when
when James Harden got traded, I believe, one of the first
things he said was you know who wouldn't want to be coached by
someone like Doc Rivers. And obviously acquiring someone in
the middle of the season is going to be growing pains,
right? You have to learn somebody
on the Fly. That's why then this training camp is going to
be so important for them. You're going to have everybody
getting on the same page. I'm not necessarily worried about
the relationship. I am
A bit about the narrative about Doc Rivers and it's not really
just a narrative. I mean, he struggled in the playoffs at
times, right? He's got one ring
with the Boston Celtics, but other than that, what has he done
in terms of leading teams to a championship, right? I think he
in many ways he's kind of on trial, right? If he can't get
this team over the hump, this year, I wouldn't be surprised
to see him gone.
But I do think that we're going to see them work some of
the Kinks in that relationship out this offseason in training camp
and I think they're gonna have a strong start to the season.
Chris, I want to ask you while I still have your want to
switch. Gears a little bit and talk about the New York Knicks.
My New York Knicks who, you know, tend to be the bane of my
existence in the Sports World,
jaymund Iran. Had a very nice showing
again
in the summer league, Detroit Pistons, he played 12 minutes,
nine points 1 rebound. So very impressive for such a short
amount of time. I made, no secret about drastically,
desperately wanting jail, enduring in a New York Knicks
uniform.
I had him for about 25 seconds, then he
Ripped away from me.
I want to ask is this something that the Knicks are going to
regret? Obviously just paid Mitchell Robinson for years,
sixty million dollars, Christian was very critical of
that. Contract said, it seems a little high for some of them
into Robinson's caliber.
Obviously Jericho Sims is supposed to be the version
of jail enduring. But do you think the Knicks missed
the Mark or not, keeping them, or trying to keep him?
I'm gonna be real. I'll admit this. And I wonder if Christian
feels the same way. Just to some of that covers the NBA and
does it really intensely for a full you know season
it's really difficult to cover the league and pay really close
attention to the draft prospects as well. I know that
there's a lot of video. There's a lot of
kind of investigating that other people do of these
players and, you know, how they play, and what systems, they
play, who they're playing against. I don't even try to
pretend that I get a chance to do both. I'm so kind of
raptured and NBA
during the Now, what I will say is that the Knicks made
a gamble
time will tell whether it was a smart one or not
about the fact that they wanted to open up cap, space for Jalen
Brunson. They also wanted to try to collect more assets for
the possibility of,
you know, in the future, being able to trade for a star.
So that was the choice. They made
it was interesting to see. And what people thought to be
a pretty strong draft to watch them trade down repeatedly, so
it absolutely could burn them. There. Probably will be some
one lower down in the draft that they
Passed on or chose not to use a pick on
that. Will be really really good and
like clockwork. Well here Stephen A and everybody else
criticized the fact that the Knicks did that
when someone kind of
like a Donovan Mitchell kind of you know
it's better than a lot of people were assuming he would be,
that will be a criticism that will be lobbed at the Nixon
other teams to. But at the next most loudly and that's
something that they always have to be prepared for,
but we can't really judge any of this until we see what do
the Knicks cash in all these assets that they have. Was it
nine
first rounders? They have over the next four or five years or
something like that, until they catch those in for something,
it, what? We will see then what they use it for. If there's not
a worthwhile player to use it for, or if they use it on
a player where it's not really worth it, then we can criticize
it. Openly, whether jail enduring is good or not,
because they still could use it on somebody else.
If not him,
you know, it shouldn't jail endure and obviously NBA ready
physically. Obviously there's going to be a lot of things
that he needs to improve on his game, like most rookies do. Do.
But bitter Robinson was
a player that Knicks fans were on the fence about. I being one
of them that was on the opposite side of the fence of
a lot of other Knicks fans, I was okay with letting him walk of
jail enduring fell into our lap, which he did
went ahead and traded him to be part of that Jalen Brunson
package went ahead and trade Jalen durin to go ahead and go
to Detroit and pay Mitchell Robinson.
Is that something that you would have done and how are you
feeling about it in hindsight, you know?
I'm not too mad about the deal as long as we see some
maturation in Mitchell Robinson's game, I think he's
got that frame and the size and the athleticism. We see he
jumps out the gym,
he can block floaters that are going above the backboard. We
know what type of talent he is, but can he stay on the floor?
Can you stay out of foul trouble? Can he make
the advanced reads? As a big man that you kind of have to be
able to make
just to stay on the floor.
So it's interesting to Chris's point, you know, it's difficult
to have your tabs on a specific team all year. Along. And then
also be watching college basketball to know who's coming
up. So, I hadn't watched too much of jail endure, and I'm
kind of taking what you've said, and you've been
significantly impressed with him.
Happy at Memphis, I interviewed him. And I was impressed even
back then, with his build. I just need alone his physicality
for someone so young, it looked like he had been in the weight
room and MBA facility for
at least four years. I mean, the guy is huge and he's
a talent again. Not perfect. Nobody in the draft is perfect.
Everyone needs to go ahead and prove some way shape or form.
But just like you Mitchell Robinson for everything that he
brings I'm concerned about the things that he doesn't bring
and the speed in which he has
a has effectively gotten better at them. I haven't seen that
happen fast enough and then also you know, I've spoken
about this, I'm a little bit worried about his maturity off
the court. There's been a lot of instances where,
you know, their subliminal messaging
Whether it's in his Instagram stories and his tweets and,
you know, a young team, it's very easy to go in the opposite
direction and I don't want to see them become Twitter
fingers. I want to keep all your fingers on the ball for
when it counts,
when we need you to go ahead and win games. If he can do
that, I'm very excited for him to prove me wrong. I hope that
he does. So you know, I've seen some of those Instagram post
where the knit the next, the next will have
just lost by like 20
and he's on Instagram on his stories talking about while
I had five blocks in the game so I did what I do. Have to do,
that's not what you want to see from your, from your starting
center or your franchise, centerpiece at that position.
But at the same time, in the Knicks are hoping that he
develops and matures over these next couple of years. Because
I think if you have a Mitchell Robinson with his head on
straight, you know, that's a starting caliber Center for for
the
next six. Seven years,
I'm more concerned about Jalen Brunson,
right? And whether that was the right decision to make that
your point guard, and whether or not the Knicks are actually
building around him for the future or if he's potentially
a trade ship, two years, a year from Um now maybe of Donovan
Mitchell becomes available.
I still want to see Donovan Mitchell back in New York. He's
a HomeTown hero. We want to see him here.
I'm just not sold on Jalen Brunson as the guy who's going
to carry the Knicks into the next because you guys don't
want to be second round exit. You guys want to be
Eastern Conference Finals. NBA finals.
I'm just concerned that there's a ceiling on how good you can
be with Jalen Brunson as your starting point guard. And he's
gonna have to prove me wrong.
Chris, I want to ask you before I let you go. I mean I was one
of the people People who were a little bit of
side. I this move, it seems like, you know, not a, you
know, it's asinine amount of money but it seemed like
a hefty paycheck for someone that we really only have one
impressive season
2 gauge off of and
even in the playoffs you know, after that first series his
points per game, you know kind of fell down the ladder
a little bit but it was very interesting because
the conversation The Narrative was
Jalen Brunson is not the Savior, he's not the Savior,
he's not going to be the one to bring a chair. Change if he's
not going to be the one to change this next franchise
around, but on the other side of that, it was almost treating
him like the Savior, with all the things that were done
behind the scenes, to go ahead and make this happen, all
the moving pieces
and ultimately paying a tampering find for going ahead
and getting him to New York.
What do you make of the whole Saga? And did the Knicks do
a little bit too much to get someone who's not even top 10
in his position.
I think that
honestly speaking.
The hype around. It was significant. I think, you know,
again kind of involving Christian in this,
it's the New York media Market. There's twice as many
newspapers is most major cities have in New York, so there's
a lot of people reporting about it.
He was on a playoff team that was making a run. That, you know,
people were making note of the fact that the Knicks had some
of their people at his games
that that's happened before. That was complained about
before when Kawhi Leonard was doing his thing. And
you know, and the Clippers had people at his games
before. So it have been that stuff has happened
before it gets more attention when it happens in New York it
always does. He's being paid like an average starting point
guard which seems like a lot considering the next haven't
had
really anybody worth a damn
at the starting point guard and a decade.
He's not a savior type player. I think all of us could look at
him and say that he's got deficiencies, he's not great on
defense, he's not really a traditional. A
point guard as far as Distributing the ball. He was
not the lead ball handler on his team. He was a backup point
guard on his team.
So no he's not a savior. He is someone that can take over for
stretches. The truth here. Is that RJ Barrett's? Development
is the most important thing and this franchise right now and
I would say, the next most important thing is
a tie between figuring out, what you're doing with Julius Randle
and figuring out what you cash in all those chips on.
If you don't handle those two things properly, the rest of it
does not. Matter. You can talk about John Brunson 104 million
too much money not enough money
too much. Do it too much going on behind the scenes to
attain him and obtain him
it none of it will matter if they don't find a second or
a third guy and figure out what they're doing with Randall or
how to make him more comfortable, it is irrelevant
and I feel like too much attention has been paid to
Jalen Brunson when really
he needs to be the first step in
a series of things to get them to where you're talking about
to be a conference - Analysts. And then be a finalist.
He's not. Of course, he's not the guy and I think most of us
can look at that, but I do feel like it's been a little bit
overhyped, just because it's the first time. The Knicks have
spent big in awhile and spent big at that position in a long
while.
Listen, it's not being overpaid, if that's what
they're going to, go ahead and offer you. That's the lesson of
the day ladies and gentlemen. Chris Herring, thank you so
much for joining us as always a pleasure speaking to you and we
will be