>>> WOULDN’T YOU LOVE TO SEE ONE OF THESE NFL OWNERS WHEN
SOMEBODY DISRESPECTS OUR FLAG TO
SAY GET THAT SON OF A BITCH OFF
THE FIELD RIGHT NOW?
HE IS FIRED.
TODAY IF YOU HIT TOO HARD, THEY
HIT TOO HARD, 15 YARDS, THROW
HIM OUT OF THE GAME.
THEY HAD THAT LAST WEEK.
I WATCHED FOR A COUPLE OF
MINUTES.
MINUTES. TWO GUYS JUST
BEAUTIFUL TACKLE, BOOM, 15
YARDS.
YARDS. THE REFEREE GETS ON TELEVISION.
HIS WIFE IS SITTING AT HOME,
SHE’S SO PROUD OF HIM.
THEY’RE RUINING THE GAME.
RIGHT?
RIGHT? >> IT’S BEEN A LITTLE MORE THAN
A YEAR SINCE DONALD TRUMP WAGED
WAR ON THE NFL.
OUR NEXT GUEST REVEALS THE TRUE
ROOT OF HIS GRUDGE AGAINST THE
LEAGUE, WHICH CAN BE TRACED BACK
TO TRUMP’S OWNERSHIP OF THE NEW
JERSEY GENERALS, A TEAM THAT WAS
PART OF A SHORT-LIVED LEAGUE
CALLED THE UNITED STATES
FOOTBALL LEAGUE OF THE 1980s.
THE USFL.
THE USFL. JOINING US NOW "NEW YORK TIMES"
BEST-SELLING AUTHOR OF EIGHT
BOOKS, JEFF PEARLMAN.
HIS LATEST BOOK IS "FOOTBALL FOR
A BUCK," HOW MUCH OF TRUMP’S
BEHAVIOR IN OFFICE WAS
FORESHADOWED BY HIS TENURE IN
THAT DEFUNCT FOOTBALL LEAGUE.
ALSO WITH US, MARK LEIBOVICH.
>> TWO GREAT BOOKS.
>> I’M IN MY WHEEL HOUSE HERE.
I’M READY, YEAH.
I’M GOING TO START OFF.
>> KICK OFF THE QUESTIONS.
>> HERE WE GO.
>> JEFF, THIS BOOK IS SO FUN,
SUCH A PAGE TURNER, THERE’S SO
MANY INCREDIBLE STORIES AND
DONALD TRUMP IS AT THE CENTER OF
A LOT OF IT.
SO I’M JUST GOING TO PICK ONE.
WE CAN GO FROM THERE.
DONALD TRUMP WROTE A LETTER TO
OTHER LEAGUE OWNERS IN THE USFL,
BACK IN THE DAY, INSISTING THEY
CONTRIBUTE TO THE SALARY OF HIS
PLAYER, HEISMAN TROPHY WINNING
QUARTERBACK DOUG FLUTEY.
THE LETTER READS THIS.
WRITTEN BY DONALD TRUMP.
"AS YOU ARE AWARE I WOULD COME
BACK AND ASK THE OWNERS TO BEAR
SOME OF THE COSTS OF DOUG’S
CONTRACT.
CONTRACT. I DID NOT NEED DOUG AS A PLAYER,
BUT FELT THE LEAGUE DESPERATELY
NEEDED SOMEONE OR SOMETHING
FAST, AS IT TURNS OUT IT WAS
MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN EVEN OUR
WILDEST EXPECTATIONS.
WILDEST EXPECTATIONS. EVERYONE IS NOW BENEFITING FROM
DOUG FLUTEY.
DOUG FLUTEY. I WOULD APPRECIATE YOU PUTTING
ON THE NEXT AGENDA THE
ALLOCATION OF DOUG FLUTEY’S
COSTS TO EACH TEAM.
HE DRAFTS A PLAYER ON HIS TEAM
AND WANTS TO SPREAD THE COSTS
AROUND BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A
BRILLIANT.
BRILLIANT. >> HE WAS THE MEXICO WALL BEFORE
THE MEXICO CALL.
DONALD TRUMP SIGNS HIM TO A
SIX-YEAR $8.3 MILLION, BIGGEST
CONTRACT IN FOOTBALL AT THAT
TIME.
TIME. HE TELLS HIS PARTNERS AT THE
GENERALS, DON’T WORRY WE’RE
GOING TO SIGN DOUG FLUTEY, BUT
THE REST OF THE LEAGUE IS GOING
TO PAY FOR IT.
HIS LITERAL PITCH TO THE OTHER
OWNERS.
OWNERS. HE WRITES A LETTER TO THE
COMMISSIONER AND TELLS THE OTHER
OWNERS, I HAVE SIGNED DOUG
FLUTEY FOR THE GOOD OF YOU, I AM
GIVING THIS TO YOU AS A GIFT TO
THE LEAGUE.
THE LEAGUE. YOU WILL PAY FOR IT.
AND THE OTHER OWNERS, MUCH LIKE
MEXICO, COLLECTIVELY GAVE HIM
THE MIDDLE FINGER AND NEVER PAID
A DIME.
A DIME. >> THE STORY OF USFL, IT WAS A
FUN LEAGUE, HAD SOME SUCCESSFUL
FRANCHISES, SOME OF WHICH MAYBE
WOULD HAVE BECOME NFL
ENTERPRISES.
ENTERPRISES. DONALD TRUMP GETS IN THE LEAGUE.
NEW JERSEY GENERALS ARE HIS
TEAM.
TEAM. FROM DAY ONE HE WANTED AN NFL
FRANCHISE.
FRANCHISE. SO THIS WAS A STEPPINGSTONE FOR
HIM WHICH MAY HAVE LED TO THE
COLLAPSE OF THE LEAGUE.
>> IT WAS A SCAM.
IT REALLY WAS A SCAM.
HE BOUGHT THE GENERALS AFTER THE
FIRST SEASON.
FIRST SEASON. THE FIRST SEASON WAS 1983.
IT WAS A SPRING LEAGUE.
THEY WERE ON SALE FOR
$8.5 MILLION.
$8.5 MILLION. HE PAID 10 MILLION.
HE GETS THE GENERALS,
IMMEDIATELY, IN THE LEAD UP TO
THE BUYING, I’M SO EXCITED TO BE
A PART OF THIS LEAGUE.
THIS IS A GREAT LEAGUE.
I LOVE WHAT YOU’RE DOING.
HE GETS THE GENERALS.
WE NEED TO MOVE TO FALL.
WE HAVE TO MOVE TO FALL, TAKE ON
THE NFL.
THE NFL. >> IMMEDIATELY.
>> IMMEDIATELY. >> IMMEDIATELY.
>> IMMEDIATELY. HE HAS A MEETING WITH PETE
ROSELL.
ROSELL. IN THIS MEETING HE SAYS I DON’T
CARE ABOUT THE USFL, YOU TELL ME
WHAT I HAVE TO DO TO GET AN NFL
FRANCHISE.
FRANCHISE. IT WAS PREPOSTEROUS.
HE DID IT -- HE BASICALLY WENT
BEHIND THE BACK OF THE FELLOW
OWNERS.
OWNERS. AND PETE ROSELL SAYS TO HIM, AS
LONG AS I AM WITH THE NFL YOU
WILL NEVER HAVE A TEAM IN THIS
LEAGUE.
LEAGUE. HE CONSIDERED HIM TO BE A
CONMAN.
CONMAN. >> THAT PLANTS THE SEED OF
RESENTMENT WITH DONALD TRUMP IN
THE NFL.
THE NFL. >> OH, GOD.
>> AGAIN, LET’S GET TO, I MEAN,
THE TIMES BIG PIECE AND HIS
TAXES AND HIS FATHER FUNDING
EVERY FAILED ENTERPRISE DONALD
HAD FOR YEARS.
HE IS A FINANCIAL FOOL IN TERMS
OF BUYING THE TEAM.
THE TEAM WAS ON THE MARKET FOR
WHAT, $8.5 MILLION, AND HE PAID
WHAT?
WHAT? >> HE PAID $10 MILLION.
AND HIS WHOLE THING WAS ABOUT
GETTING AN NFL FRANCHISE.
THAT’S THE ONLY REASON HE DID
THIS WAS TO GET AN NFL
FRANCHISE.
FRANCHISE. IT WASN’T ABOUT THE USFL OR THE
GOOD OF THE LEAGUE.
IT WAS ABOUT GETTING AN NFL
FRANCHISE.
FRANCHISE. HE LED A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE --
THE USFL SUED THE NFL IN A
FAMOUS LAWSUIT AND THEY FAMOUSLY
WON A DOLLAR.
THAT WAS THE DEATH OF THE USFL.
>> DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF --
WERE ANY OF THESE TEAMS VIABLE
ENOUGH IF THE USFL HAD HUNG ON,
SOME OF THEM COULD HAVE ENDED UP
IN THE NFL?
>> A STRIKE CAME ALONG IN ’87.
THEY’VE USED REPLACEMENT
PLAYERS.
PLAYERS. IF THE USFL HAD HUNG ON TWO
YEARS YOU’D HAVE THIS MASS CHAOS
AND ANARCHY IN FOOTBALL.
THERE WERE TEAMS, A TEAM IN
JACKSONVILLE BEFORE THE JAGUARS,
A TEAM IN TENNESSEE BEFORE THE
TITANS, A TEAM IN BALTIMORE
AFTER THE COLTS LEFT, AND A TEAM
IN BIRMINGHAM.
IN BIRMINGHAM. YOU WOULD HAVE HAD SOME SORT OF
MERGER INEVITABLY.
MERGER INEVITABLY. >> EDDIE GLAUDE IS WITH US.
IT STARTS AS A PERSONAL GRIPE,
AND CUT TO THE PAST COUPLE OF
YEARS.
YEARS. HE TURNS THIS INTO A COMPLETE
CULTURE WAR.
CULTURE WAR. >> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. WHAT I’M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT,
JEFF, AND MARK, IS IT SEEMS LIKE
THE RECORD IS REPLETE WITH
EXAMPLES OF DONALD TRUMP AS A
CONMAN.
CONMAN. THAT WE KNEW WHO HE WAS, AND WE
KEEP GETTING EVIDENCE OF WHO HE
CURRENTLY IS.
CURRENTLY IS. HOW DO WE CONTINUE TO FALL FOR
HIS CON?
HIS CON? THAT’S THE QUESTION I’M SITTING
HERE GRAPPLING WITH.
>> JEFF?
>> JEFF? >> I DO HAVE ONE THING I WILL
SAY.
SAY. >> YOU’VE GOT NO ANSWER FOR THAT
ONE.
ONE. I DON’T EITHER.
>> THE NFL THING DRIVES ME
INSANE.
INSANE. LET ME JUST SAY THIS.
DONALD TRUMP -- HE MEETS WITH
PETE ROSELL TO GET A FRANCHISE,
TRIES SUING THE NFL, TRIES
BUYING THE BUFFALO BILLS, FAILS,
TRIES BUYING THE NEW ENGLAND
PATRIOTS, FAILS.
PATRIOTS, FAILS. HE’S REGULARLY SITTING THERE
DOING WORK DURING THE NATIONAL
ANTHEM, NO CRIME --
>> IT’S A SIGN OF PROTEST.
>> FOR A GUY WHO HATES THE NFL
HE SURE WANTS TO BE IN THE NFL.
IT WAS THE CLUB HE KULDCOULD NOT
INTO.
INTO. >> JOE?
>> JOE? >> THAT’S ONE OF MANY, MANY
CLUBS HE HAVE NEVER ALLOWED TO
GET INTO.
GET INTO. AND IT STINGS, STILL STINGS
EVERY DAY.
EVERY DAY. YOU KNOW, MARK LEIBOVICH, WE
HAVE THE COMING TOGETHER OF TWO
STORIES HERE, ONE, THE USFL, AND
TWO, THE STORY OF HIS FATHER
TRANSFERRING MILLIONS AND
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO HIM.
HE GETS IN THE USFL.
THEY LET HIM IN.
HE’S THE BIGGEST CHAMPION OF THE
USFL.
USFL. THEN GETS BEHIND THEIR BACK,
TRIES TO STAB THEM IN THE BACK
AND TELLS ROSELL HE WANTS TO GET
INTO THE NFL.
HE DOESN’T CARE FOR THE USFL.
SAME THING WITH HIS FATHER WHO’S
SHOVELING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS
OF DOLLARS TO HIM THROUGHOUT HIS
OWN LIFE.
OWN LIFE. AT THE END OF HIS FATHER’S LIFE
HE TRIED TO SCREW HIS OWN DAD BY
CHANGING A WILL, ACCORDING TO
"THE NEW YORK TIMES," AND SCARES
HIS FATHER BECAUSE IT WOULD BE
TO HIT DETRIMENT TO BAIL OUT HIS
SON.
SON. >> THERE’S A STRAIN THAT RUNS
THROUGH THOSE TWO THINGS, HIS
ABSOLUTE BELIEF IN THE POWER OF
MARKETING AND HYPE AND HIS
ABILITY TO TALK THROUGH AND SELL
ANYTHING, AND JUST THINK THAT AT
THE END OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW,
THE FACT WILL -- IF THEY EVER
COME OUT, THEY’LL COME OUT
DECADES DOWN THE ROAD, LIKE IN
THE "NEW YORK TIMES" OVER, YOU
KNOW, A 12,000 WORD PIECE WHICH,
YOU KNOW, BY THAT TIME HE’LL BE
HALFWAY AROUND THE WORLD, OR IN
THIS CASE IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
SO, AGAIN, I MEAN, I THINK IT’S
JUST SORT OF PART OF A PATTERN
THAT HE ESSENTIALLY HAS BUILT
HIS CAREER ON, WHETHER IT’S A
HOUSE OF CARDS, OR, YOU KNOW,
THE GREATEST MARKETING SCAM IN
HISTORY.
HISTORY. >> JEFF, ANOTHER GREAT ANECDOTE
IN THE STORY COMES IN 1984 WHEN
TRUMP WANTS TO SIGN LAWRENCE
TAYLOR AWAY FROM THE GIANTS AND
ONTO THE GENERALS.
>> OH, YEAH.
>> AND SO HE HAS A MEETING WITH
LAWRENCE TAYLOR’S AGENTS, AND
THEN A PUBLICIST GOES BY THE
NAME OF JOHN BARRON, STARTS
CALLING AROUND, WHO SOUNDS A LOT
LIKE DONALD TRUMP, YOU GO AER
"WE KNEW IT WAS DONALD THE WHOLE
TIME.
TIME. HE WASN’T EVEN GOOD AT CHANGING
HIS VOICE.
HIS VOICE. IT WAS EMBARRASSING."
HE’S GOING AROUND SAYING TRUMP’S
A GENIUS, HE GOT LAWRENCE TAYLOR
TO LEAVE THE GIANTS TO COME TO
THE GENERALS WHICH WAS NOT TRUE.
>> IF YOU -- THERE ARE QUOTES
ALL OVER THE PLACE FROM JOHN
BARRON, HOW GREAT DOUG FLUTEY IS
FOR THE LEAGUE AND MR. TRUMP IS
A GENIUS.
A GENIUS. IT IS A JOKE.
IT’S A JOKE.
>> THE JOKE’S ON US.
I MEAN, ON AMERICA.
>> HE ALSO HIRED ROY COHN AS HIS
ATTORNEY FOR THE LEAGUE AND TOLD
THE OTHER OWNERS WE’RE GOING TO
HIRE ROY COHN, THE NFL IS GOING
TO WANT TO SETTLE IMMEDIATELY
BECAUSE THEY’RE TERRIFIED OF
THIS GUY.
THIS GUY. >> THE BOOK IS OUT NOW.
JEFF PEARLMAN, THANKS SO MUCH
FOR BEING ON.
MARK LEIBOVICH, "BIG GAME," THE