>>> A LIVE LOOK AT THE WHITE
HOUSE AT 39 PAST THE HOUR.
>>> A FEDERAL JUDGE PRESIDING
OVER A CIVIL LAWSUIT INVOLVING
THE JANUARY 6th HOUSE SELECT
COMMITTEE RULED YESTERDAY THAT
FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS
LEGAL ADVISOR JOHN EASTMAN
LIKELY COMMITTED FEDERAL CRIMES
IN THEIR EFFORT TO BLOCK THE
CERTIFICATION OF THE 2020
ELECTION RESULTS.
IN A 44-PAGE DECISION ABOUT
WHETHER THE COMMITTEE SHOULD
RECEIVE SOME OF EASTMAN'S
PRIVATE COMMUNICATIONS, THE
JUDGE WROTE IN PART THIS.
THE ILLEGALITY OF THE PLAN WAS
OBVIOUS.
BASED ON THE EVIDENCE, THE COURT
FINDS IT MORE LIKELY THAN NOT
THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP CORRUPTLY
ATTEMPTED TO OBSTRUCT THE JOINT
SESSION OF CONGRESS ON JANUARY
6th, 2021.
THE JUDGE'S COMMENTS MARK A
SIGNIFICANT BREAKTHROUGH FOR THE
COMMITTEE INVESTIGATING THE
CAPITOL ATTACK, WHICH IS
WEIGHING WHETHER TO MAKE A
CRIMINAL REFERRING TO THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THE
RULING HAS NO DIRECT BEARING ON
WHETHER TRUMP WILL FACE CRIMINAL
CHARGES IN THAT IT INVOLVED A
CIVIL CASE IN WHICH THE BURDEN
OF PROOF IS LESS THAN IN A
CRIMINAL CASE.
TRUMP DID NOT RESPOND TO A
REQUEST FOR COMMENT.
>>> LET'S BRING IN RIGHT NOW
ATTORNEY GEORGE CONWAY,
CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT OF
"THE WASHINGTON POST" JACKIE
ALEMANY.
LET ME START WITH YOU, GEORGE.
DOES IT REALLY MATTER?
IN THE MUELLER REPORT YOU HAD
PROSECUTORS SAY, YEAH, SURE, HE
COMMITTED A CRIME.
BASICALLY WHAT THEY SAID, IF HE
WASN'T PRESIDENT, YOU KNOW, HE
WOULD BE -- THEY WOULD GO AFTER
HIM.
YOU HAVE THE MANHATTAN D.A.
SCUTTLE AN INVESTIGATION WHEN
THE PROSECUTORS SAY HE COMMITTED
MULTIPLE CRIMES.
NOW WE HAVE A FEDERAL JUDGE
SAYING, YES, HE COMMITTED
MULTIPLE CRIMES.
DOES IT REALLY MATTER?
DONALD TRUMP GETS AWAY WITH
EVERYTHING.
IS HE GOING TO GET AWAY WITH
THIS, TOO?
>> I CAN'T TELL YOU WHETHER HE
WILL GET AWAY WITH IT BUT IT
DOES MATTER.
THIS IS A FEDERAL JUDGE MAKING
THINKS FINDINGS INDEPENDENTLY ON
THE BASIS OF EVIDENCE THAT'S
OVERWHELMING.
WHAT THE JUDGE FOUND HERE IS
THERE WAS A LIKELIHOOD DONALD
TRUMP AND JOHN EASTMAN VIOLATED
TWO FEDERAL STATUTES THAT
ESSENTIALLY DO THE SAME THING.
THEY ESSENTIALLY PREVENT PEOPLE
FROM CORRUPTLY OR FRAUDULENTLY
INTERFERING WITH OFFICIAL
PROCEEDINGS OF THE U.S.
GOVERNMENT AND FROM INTERFERING
WITH THE OFFICIAL LAWFUL
FUNCTIONS OF THE U.S.
GOVERNMENT.
YOU KNOW, WITH BOTH STATUTES THE
EVIDENCE THE JUDGE LISTED HERE,
WHICH IS NOW PUBLIC AND WE'VE
BEEN DISCUSSING IT FOR QUITE
SOMETIME, IS OVERWHELMING THAT,
YES, THEY WERE TRYING -- WHAT
THEY WERE TRYING TO DO IS
CONSPIRE TO STOP THE COUNTING OF
ELECTORAL VOTES PURSUANT TO THE
12th AMENDMENT OF THE
CONSTITUTION AND THE ELECTORAL
COUNT ACT, AND THEY WERE TRYING
TO DO IT THROUGH LIES AND
DECEIT.
YOU KNOW, THE THING THAT -- THE
DEFENSE DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO
HAVE, IS GOING TO TRY TO USE IS
THAT, OH, I REALLY BELIEVED
THIS.
I REALLY BELIEVED THIS.
BUT THE EVIDENCE, AGAIN, GONE
THROUGH HERE VERY SYSTEMATICALLY
BY THE FEDERAL JUDGE IS HE HAD
EVERY REASON NOT TO BELIEVE HE
WON THE ELECTION.
HE WAS TOLD THIS BY THE
CYBERSECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE
AGENCY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF
HOMELAND SECURITY.
HE WAS TOLD THIS BY THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES WHO
HE MADE LOOK INTO THIS.
HE WAS TOLD THIS BY PEOPLE IN
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHO
SAID -- WHO FOLLOWED BARR,
MR. ROSEN, THE ACTING ATTORNEY
GENERAL, AND THEN DONAHUE, THE
ACTING DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL.
HE WAS TOLD BY THE WHITE HOUSE
COUNSEL HIS ATTEMPT TO OVERTURN
THE ELECTION WAS FOLLY.
HE WAS TOLD BY RAFFENSPERGER,
THE SECRETARY OF STATE IN
GEORGIA.
I WOULD ADD IT WASN'T IN THE
OPINION, HE WAS TOLD THIS BY THE
SENATE MAJORITY LEADER, MITCH
McCONNELL, AND HE LOST 60
LAWSUITS.
ALL OF THESE THINGS MAKE IT
IMPOSSIBLE TO BELIEVE THAT HE
DIDN'T KNOW THAT HE WAS
COMMITTING A FRAUD, AND HIS
DEFENSE IS BASICALLY THE BIGGER
THE LIE THE MORE I SHOULD GET
AWAY WITH IT.
THE OTHER THING WAS THAT WE DID
THIS OUT IN THE OPEN.
WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T
DESTROY DEMOCRACY IN SECRET.
IT HAS TO HAPPEN OUT IN THE OPEN
WITH BIG, BIG LIES, AND THAT'S
WHAT HISTORY TEECHLSACHES AND TH
WHAT WE SAW LEADING UP TO
JANUARY 6th.
>> GEORGE, AS STRONG OF A CASE
AS THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WOULD
HAVE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP
ACCORDING TO THIS JUDGE IF THEY
WENT AFTER HIM, IT LOOKS LIKE
EASTMAN -- THE CASE AGAINST
EASTMAN MAY BE EVEN STRONGER
BECAUSE OF HIS WORDS AND DEEDS.
TALK ABOUT EASTMAN.
>> EASTMAN, I MEAN I THINK THE
JUDGE WITHOUT SAYING SO
CONFIRMED THE WISDOM OF
EASTMAN'S LAWYERS WHO TOLD HIM
TO PLEAD THE FIFTH AND HE PLED
THE FIFTH 146 TIMES IN HIS
DEPOSITION BEFORE THE JANUARY
6th COMMITTEE.
HE'S SERIOUSLY EXPOSED BECAUSE
HE WAS THE POINT MAN FOR ALL OF
THIS.
HE WAS THE ONE COMING UP WITH
THE LEGAL THEORIES AND PASSING
THEM AROUND AND TRYING TO
PERSUADE OTHERS.
IN FACT, IN SOME OF THE
DOCUMENTS IT APPEARS HE
ACKNOWLEDGED THERE WAS NO
PRECEDENT FOR WHAT HE WAS
ARGUING.
HIS OWN BAD FAITH IS REVEALED IN
HIS DOCUMENTS.
AS A TRAINED LAWYER AND LAW
PROFESSOR AND A FORMER SUPREME
COURT CLERK, HE -- HE KNEW
BETTER, BETTER THAN TRUMP HAD
TO.
>> JACKIE ALEMANY, I WANT TO
HEAR ABOUT OTHER MOVING BEING
MADE BY THE JANUARY 6th SELECT
COMMITTEE.
ARE THEY MAKING ANY HEADWAY IN
TERMS OF GETTING TOWARD
PRESENTING TO THE PUBLIC A CLEAR
CASE?
>> THEY ARE MOVING IN THAT
DIRECTION AT THE MOMENT.
WE SAW LAST NIGHT THE COMMITTEE
TAKE THEIR MOST RECENT
DEFINITIVE STEP FORWARD, MOVING
TO HOLD SCAN SCAVINO AND PETER
NAVARRO, TWO CLOSE FORMER AIDES
TO THE PRESIDENT, IN CRIMINAL
CONTEMPT.
THAT WILL GET A FULL VOTE IN THE
HOUSE BEFORE BEING REFERRED TO
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHICH
WILL HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER
THEY'RE GOING TO PICK IT UP FOR
PROSECUTION BUT THERE ARE A
BUNCH OF LOOSE ENDS THE
COMMITTEE HAS TO DEAL WITH
BEFORE MOVING TO THE PUBLIC
PHASE OF THE HEARINGS.
AS LIZ CHENEY TOLD ME LAST NIGHT
THERE IS STILL A LOT OF WORK TO
BE DONE DESPITE PUBLIC HEARINGS
SCHEDULED TO START IN ONE OR TWO
MONTHS.
THAT INCLUDES PEOPLE LIKE IVANKA
TRUMP, CONGRESSMAN SCOTT PERRY,
JIM JORDAN, HOUSE MINORITY
LEADER KEVIN McCARTHY.
JARED KUSHNER IS APPEARING ON
THURSDAY.
NOW JENNY THOMAS IS ANOTHER
MOVING PIECE OF THE PUZZLE.
SO THERE ARE SOME REALLY KEY
PEOPLE INCLUDING MARK MEADOWS AS
WELL.
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS YET
TO MAKE A DECISION ON WHETHER OR
NOT THEY'RE GOING TO PROSECUTE
HIM FOR THE CRIMINAL CONTEMPT
CHARGE.
YOU COULD SEE THE FRUSTRATIONS
BOILING OVER.
BUT AS COMMITTEE MEMBERS NOTED
LAST NIGHT AT THE CONTEMPT
HEARING, HUNDREDS OF INTERVIEWS
HAVE BEEN HELD.
HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS OF
DOCUMENTS HAVE BEEN OBTAINED.
SO THEY'RE ON THEIR TIMELINE AND
THEY'RE ON TRACK TO HOLD THE
PUBLIC HEARINGS LATER THIS
SPRING.
>> HEY, JACKIE.
YOU HAVE SOME NEW REPORTING UP
JUST THIS MORNING ABOUT JENNY
THOMAS, OF COURSE, THE WIFE OF
SUPREME COURT JUSTICE CLARENCE
THOMAS AND THE TEXT MESSAGES,
THE EXCHANGES SHE HAD WITH MARK
MEADOWS AS SHE SOUGHT TO HELP
OVERTURN THE RESULTS OF THE 2020
ELECTION AND HELP THE WHITE
HOUSE STAGE A COUP.
WHAT MORE ARE YOU HEARING ABOUT
REACTION FROM DEMOCRATS, THE
SENATE JUDICIARY CHAIR DICK
DURBIN TOLD NBC NEWS YESTERDAY
HE BELIEVED CLARENCE THOMAS
NEEDS TO RECUSE HIMSELF BASED ON
THESE TEXTS FROM ANY FURTHER
REVIEW BY THE SUPREME COURT
ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AROUND THE
ELECTION.
WHAT ARE YOU HEARING TODAY?
>> WE HAVE FRESH REPORTING
RESPONDING TO BOB COSTA AND BOB
WOODWARD'S REPORTING ABOUT JENNY
THOMAS'S TEXT EXCHANGES WITH
FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF
STAFF MARK MEADOWS AND SENATORS
ELIZABETH WARREN ALONG WITH A
HANDFUL OF OTHER LAWMAKERS
INCLUDING THE CHAIR OF THE
COMMITTEE AND JAYAPAL.
THEY ARE RAMPING UP ON CHIEF
JUSTICE THOMAS TO RECUSE THAMES
FROM JANUARY 6th CASES GOING
FORWARD, TO PROVIDE A WRITTEN
EXPLANATION FOR WHAT HE FAILED
TO PREVIOUSLY RECUSE HIMSELF.
REMEMBER, HE WAS THE ONE SUPREME
COURT JUSTICE WHO WANTED TO
BLOCK TRUMP'S DOCUMENTS FROM THE
NATIONAL ARCHIVES, FROM
PROVIDING DOCUMENTS TO THE
JANUARY 6th SELECT COMMITTEE.
AND ALSO FOR JUSTICE ROBERTS TO
PROVIDE A CODE OF CONDUCT ETHICS
FOR SUPREME COURT JUSTICES GOING
FORWARD SO THERE'S MORE OF A
SYSTEM FOR THEM TO ACTUALLY
STATE CONFLICTS OF INTERESTS AND
ACT ACCORDINGLY.
>> HEY, GEORGE.
GOOD MORNING.
IT IS JONATHAN LEMIRE.
FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP YESTERDAY
PUT OUT A DETAILED STATEMENT IN
THE WAKE OF THE ALLEGATION GOES
IN WHICH HE WENT ON ABOUT A GOLF
SHOT, AN ALLEGED HOLE IN ONE
THAT HE HIT AND SPENT A LOT OF
TIME ON THAT.
GIVE US YOUR SENSE HERE IN TERMS
OF WHAT THIS COULD MEAN FOR THE
JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE.
LIKE IN TERMS OF WHAT OPENING DO
THEY HAVE HERE, BOTH IN TERMS OF
THE PUBLIC RELATIONS AND THE
POLITICS BUT ALSO THE LEGAL
ASPECT OF THIS.
AND AS ALL OF WASHINGTON WAITS,
WHAT IS ATTORNEY GENERAL MERRICK
GARLAND WAITING FOR?
>> WELL, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HE
IS DOING.
I MEAN IT IS POSSIBLE -- YOU
KNOW, HE PROMISED IN HIS SPEECH,
ATTORNEY GARLAND, BACK IN
JANUARY THAT HE WOULD BE WORKING
HIS WAY, THE ATTORNEY -- THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WOULD BE
WORKING ITS WAY UP THE CHAIN,
AND THE WAY THEY DO IN ORGANIZED
CRIME CASES.
THEY WILL FOLLOW THE EVIDENCE
WHEREVER IT LEADS.
I THINK THAT THE BIG RESULT OF
YESTERDAY'S DECISION IS THAT
THE -- IT JUST REEMPHASIZES THAT
THE EVIDENCE ULTIMATELY LEADS TO
THE OVAL OFFICE.
I DON'T HAVE ANY REASON TO
BELIEVE THAT JUDGE GARLAND WON'T
BE DOING THAT.
ON THE OTHER HAND, IF THERE WERE
MORE DIRECT PROCEEDINGS LOOKING
INTO THAT, EVEN GRAND JURY
PROCEEDINGS, WITNESSES WOULD
BEGIN TO TALK AND WE WOULD START
TO HAVE NEWS STORIES ABOUT
PEOPLE BEING CALLED INTO A GRAND
JURY.
ALL OF THAT SAID, IT IS NOT
NECESSARILY A BAD TACTIC FOR THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO ALLOW THE
JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE, WHICH HAS
BEEN DOING A YEOMAN'S JOB OF
COLLECTING SOME OF THE EVIDENCE
AND STUDYING IT AS IT COMES IN.
SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK I HOLD OUT
HOPE THAT THIS WILL ACTUALLY
LEAD TO SOME ACTION.
I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT IT
LEAD TO SOME ACTION OR AT LEAST
A DETERMINATION WHETHER OR NOT A
PROSECUTION COULD BE MADE.
THIS IS THE WAY WE HAVE TO
DEFEND OUR DEMOCRACY.
I MEAN WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE UP
ARMS AND LEARN HOW TO USE
ROCKET-PROPELLED GRENADES TO
DEFEND OUR DEMOCRACY THE WAY
THEY HAVE TO DO IN UKRAINE.
THE WAY WE DO IT HERE, BECAUSE
WE HAVE A FUNCTIONING COURT
SYSTEM AND WE HAVE -- AND IT IS
NOT AN EXTERNAL THREAT, IT IS A
DOMESTIC THREAT.
WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS ENFORCE IS
THE LAWS THAT EXIST ON THE
BOOKS.
IF THERE EVER WAS A CONSPIRACY
TO DEFRAUD THE UNITED STATES
ABOUT SOMETHING, I MEAN A
MILLION DOLLARS, A BILLION
DOLLARS, IT IS USUALLY MONEY IN
THESE CASES, BUT THIS WAS OUR