A Chinese
spy balloon is
hovering over the United States.
It was spotted high above Montana,
where the U.S.
military has a nuclear missile silo
The Pentagon is tracking this problem
closely and says
it does not pose a military
or physical threat.
We're told
the balloon is the size of three busses.
A senior defense
official says
President Biden
has been advised to not shoot it down
because the falling debris
could hurt people on the ground.
The balloons discovery is rattling
Capitol Hill.
We're now
learning that staff members
for the Gang of Eight
have received a briefing.
Joining us now on all of
this is our chief national security
correspondent, Jim Sciutto.
Jim, good morning. Wow.
Listen, it's a slow moving Chinese
surveillance balloon
floating over the Continental.
Continental the U.S.
is understandably disturbing.
My understanding
is that as of last night,
it hadn't left us airspace.
So here's what we know so far.
First of all,
this is an image
captured from the ground.
It was visible with the naked eye
flying at about
65,000 feet, about twice
as high as commercial aircraft.
But much lower than
surveillance satellites,
as you were saying,
going in the size of three busses.
Two flights were diverted for safety.
Military leaders considered,
but ultimately decided against
the president's decision
to shoot it down.
But the idea
that that was under consideration
shows just how seriously
US officials
and the president were taking the idea
of a Chinese spy
balloon floating over the US.
You mentioned what it was flying
over, right,
Montana Malmstrom Air Base
that has ICBMs there.
So something that China would
naturally be interested
in taking a closer look at.
This happened before. Jim?
It has.
It has happened before over U.S.
territory before.
But here's something
I do want to note
in terms of surveillance capabilities.
This was not a big jump in
what China is able to see.
Why is that?
Because China is flying spy satellites
over the US.
Every 90 minutes is the orbit the Earth.
And those satellites have at least equal
surveillance capabilities.
They're highly advanced.
So in terms of what China could gather
from this balloon,
not an enormous step forward.
And by the way, we should note this,
and this is something to be concerned
about,
is that China is one of the most active
in terms of launching new satellites
Just look at the growth
going back to just six
single digits in the 2000.
Now they're up close to 100 per year.
The only other country
competing with that,
frankly, is the U.S..
And as you add it all
up, in terms of satellites,
China is second to the U.S.
in terms
of what they have floating
above there right now.
Again, all looking down at the US
gathering intelligence is all the time.
I spoke to a number of U.S.
officials last night.
So this is not a big gain
in terms of surveillance,
but it is in terms of audacity
to fly a slow moving
surveillance balloon
over the continent,
not continental US and no the US.
The president,
you and I could see it as it's happening.
Yeah.
And just before the Secretary of State,
Antony Blinken,
goes to meet
with high ranking Chinese officials.
Certainly going to change the discussion
there, Jim. Absolutely.
And by the way, as you know, Poppy,
those decisions are not made by accident.
You can see that perhaps a message
to the U.S.
secretary of state
as he prepares to go to Beijing.
All right, Jim, thank you very much.
Joining us now for more perspective on
this is the former defense
secretary under former
President Trump, Mark Esper.
Thank you so much for being here with us
this morning.
I guess the number one question I have is
when the White House makes the decision
not to shoot it down,
do you agree with that decision?
What kind of options do they have here?
Well,
first of all, I'm surprised by this.
I think it is a brazen act
by the Chinese to do this.
We were just talking about
whether or not
it has more or less intelligence value
than what they currently have.
I don't think we know.
And so my interest would be
not necessarily shooting it down,
but bringing bringing it down.
So that we can capture the equipment
and understand exactly what they do.
They're doing are they taking pictures?
Are they intercepting signals?
What are they doing?
And what is the level
of technical capability?
It will tell us a lot
about what they're trying to do.
What they're trying to learn
and what their capability is of
doing that now.
Failing that,
I would definitely shoot it down
provided that there's no risk
to people on the ground. Yeah.
So you are surprised
that this is just hovering over the
continental U.S.
Oh, absolutely.
Not just the continental United States,
but over our,
you know, our missile fields
and our strategic bomber bases.
And so that's a great concern to me
that they are collecting
intelligence and look,
they obviously are looking for something.
They need information that I would assume
they can't get through satellites.
And so that's why I would be
very interested in getting hold of this.
Whatever the payload is
and understanding
exactly what they're looking for and why.
And then, of course,
it gives us a good sense of their level
of technological capability.
The Chinese have been spying on us
for years, for decades.
We know
the FBI tells us
that, what, every 12 hours
they open up an espionage case.
To me, this is a brazen act.
And so at the political level,
we have to push back.
We have to defend American sovereignty,
and we have to make clear to the Chinese
that we're not going to tolerate this.
Is that your sense of why
it would be flying over Montana
because of that air base
that maintains and operates
those intercontinental
ballistic missiles?
Well, that would be my first guest.
But until we know what
type of instrumentation
they have in the payload,
we wouldn't know for sure.
There are other facilities
or things we do
in that part of the country.
So that's why I would want to get
a hold that technology and find out.
But again,
that's at the intelligence level.
At the political level,
we have to
send a very strong message back
that we won't tolerate this behavior.
And now, look,
maybe there's a counterintelligence value
that we see by letting it pass overhead.
Maybe there's there's always more to this
than, you know, than meets the eye.
And I wouldn't be privy to that now.
So I give the Pentagon some room here.
But those are the big questions
that I think people should ask
members of Congress should be asking
as they dig into this further.
What kind of options does
the US have for responding,
for sending the message
that you think they should send
Well, again, first,
either
capturing the equipment
or shooting it down
would be a strong message.
There's obviously
a demarche of the country,
but we should again
increase our activities as well.
You know, recall when Speaker
Pelosi visited
Taiwan last summer, the Chinese ramped up
their crossings
of the Taiwan central line
with both ships and aircraft.
And I never got the sense
that we responded forcefully back.
You got to match the Chinese
head to head.
We can't be self deterred
and we can't let the Chinese Communist
Party push us around.
They will only respond
to resolve, to commitment.
And we need to show that
when we're facing off against Beijing.
Mark, as
we were reporting on this yesterday,
we heard from the Pentagon
and they say
this is actually happened before
during the last administration
when you were defense
secretary, during that time period.
Were you aware of this?
How was it resolved
What can you tell us about that?
I read that I was surprised.
I don't ever recall somebody
coming into my office
or reading anything that
the Chinese had
a surveillance balloon
above the United States.
And you would obviously know
that if that had happened
when you were defense secretary.
I would remember that for sure.
I mean, my focus was on implementing
the national defense strategy
to take on the Chinese
as the greatest strategic
threat facing our country.
So I was keen on everything Chinese.
We set up a red cell
within the Pentagon to deal with that.
We reorient
reoriented the military's doctrine
and how we train and fight
all those things focused on the Chinese.
So I would be very curious as to why
Chinese surveillance balloons
overflying the United States.
So that would have caught my attention
for sure.
I don't recall it ever happening.
If you were at the Pentagon
and this did happen
and the secretary of state
was out to go on a trip to China.
What would your advice
to the secretary of state be?
Would you say, to cancel the trip?
Would you say
to make sure
this is the first thing they bring up?
What would your advice be?
Well, I suspect Secretary Pompeo
shared my views
as well
with regard to China,
and I don't know how
he would have reacted.
I mean,
sometimes you call off
trips like this or sometimes you go
you go prepared to give a very,
very strong statement
of of China,
China violating our sovereignty.
And so there are different ways
to approach this.
And it just depends on the broader
dynamics. And look.
On the other hand,
I think the Pentagon made a good move
with regard to expanding our
access to Philippine bases.
This was something that
we were working
on during my tenure
at the Pentagon, as well as
how do you expand U.S.
access to bases in the Philippines.
And it's very good
that we've done that
because it allows us
to dress
to address
military,
Chinese military capabilities
in case war breaks out.
Do you think in the Indo-Pacific,
do you think Blinken should cancel
his trip
That's an option that
should be considered.
But I think we need to know more and
we need to assess what's happening
in the broader context.
Curiously,
the Chinese are not outright
denying it as they would typically do.
They're saying, well,
we would never violate
someone's sovereignty.
So the way they're playing
this is quite curious to me as well.
What does it say to you
about the state of U.S.
China relations
right now that they would take an act
that you described as brazen?
Is this
Well, it's not.
Well, the relations are not good.
They have not been good for
for some time,
certainly in the months
leading up to Xi Jinping's
seizure of its of a third
term as chairman of the party
last October.
But, look, they're not getting better.
He's he's tried to change his tack
a little bit,
realizing that Chinese foreign policy
isn't playing well
in the international community.
But I don't think we should be
I don't think we should be
fooled by what they're doing.
They have an aggressive plan
to build a modern military
over the next decade.
And they
they stated that their aim by 20, 49
is to dominate the Indo-Pacific
if not the global order
and change the rules and norms.
And so that is their
their grand strategy.
And we need to be cognizant of that
and do everything we can
to push back on this,
to try and change their behavior.