THE SANDBOX. >> RICHARD ENGEL, IT’S OBVIOUSLY
NO DUST UP IN NORTHERN SYRIA.
BE SAFE OUT THERE, SIR.
THANKS FOR THAT REPORT THIS
EVENING.
EVENING. WITH ME NOW IS BRETT McGURK.
HE’S NOW AN NBC NEWS SENIOR
FOREIGN AFFAIRS ANALYST.
YOU’VE HEARD THE FIRST -- YOU’VE
HEARD RICHARD SORT OF FIRST-HAND
ACCOUNT OF -- OF AT LEAST A
PAUSE IS PROBABLY EVEN TOO
STRONG OF A WORD.
BUT SOME SUSPENSION OF -- OF --
OF HARDCORE MILITARY EFFORTS BY
THE TURKS.
THE TURKS. BUT WHERE -- WHERE ARE WE,
BRETT?
BRETT? AND IS THERE ANY WAY TO TURN
THIS AROUND AT THIS POINT?
>> WELL, FIRST, RICHARD IS QUITE
COURAGEOUS TO BE THERE AND IT’S
GREAT TO HAVE THAT FIRSTHAND
REPORTING.
REPORTING. LOOK.
LOOK. I THINK YOU GOT TO LISTEN TO
WHAT THE TURKS ARE SAYING.
ERDOGAN TODAY SAID HE HAS AN
ARRANGEMENT, AGREEMENT TO CLEAR
AN ENTIRE SAFE ZONE.
IT’S 450 KILOMETERS FROM THE
RIVER ALL THE WAY TO THE BORDER
OF IRAQ.
OF IRAQ. 30 KILOMETERS DEEP.
THAT INCLUDES ALL THE KURDISH
AREAS OF SYRIA.
ALL THE CHRISTIAN MAJORITY AREAS
OF SYRIA.
OF SYRIA. U.S. OFFICIALS CLAIM THAT WHAT
WAS AGREED TO IS MUCH NARROWER
IN SCOPE.
IN SCOPE. I WOULD TEND TO LISTEN TO THE
TURKS HERE BECAUSE --
>> CAN YOU BELIEVE YOU’RE SAYING
THAT?
THAT? CAN YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE TO SAY
IT THAT WAY?
LISTEN TO THE TURKS, NOT TO OUR
AMERICAN OFFICIALS.
AMERICAN OFFICIALS. >> THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS
WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP ANNOUNCED
TO THE WORLD LAST DECEMBER THAT
WE WERE LEAVING SYRIA AND HE
ARBITRARILY CUT OUR FORCE
REPORTEDLY IN HALF, WHICH IS
ALREADY A SMALL FORCE, WE LOST
ALL OF OUR LEVERAGE AND
INFLUENCE.
INFLUENCE. AND HE REALLY THREW IT OUT THE
WINDOW ON THIS CALL ON OCTOBER
6th.
6th. SO PRESIDENT ERDOGAN IS HEADING
TO RUSSIA TO SEE PRESIDENT PUTIN
IN FOUR DAYS AND I SUSPECT THEY
ALREADY HAVE LINES ON A MAP THAT
THEY’VE DIVVIED UP AND THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
IS PRETTY MUCH IRRELEVANT HERE.
AND OUR INFLUENCE IS JUST
RAPIDLY RECEDING AS WE LEAVE OUR
BASES AND BLOW THEM UP OR HAND
THEM TO THE RUSSIANS.
SO OUR ABILITY TO INFLUENCE THIS
SITUATION IS EXTREMELY LIMITED.
AND IT IS DEEPLY TROUBLING WHEN
PRESIDENT ERDOGAN ANNOUNCES TO
THE WORLD, AS HE DID AGAIN
TODAY, THAT HE PLANS TO CLEAN
OUT THIS ENTIRE AREA AND
REPOPULATE IT WITH TWO TO THREE
MILLION PEOPLE, AS RICHARD JUST
REPORTED.
REPORTED. AND UNITED STATES APPEARS NOW TO
HAVE RATIFIED THIS PLAN.
I DON’T THINK TRUMP UNDERSTANDS
ANY OF THIS.
I DON’T THINK HE KNOWS WHAT HE’S
DOING.
DOING. I THINK DIPLOMATS ARE TRYING TO
SCRAMBLE TO BUY SOME TIME IN
WHAT HAS BEEN A CASCADING CRISIS
WITH AMERICANS IN HARM’S WAY.
AND THERE’S SOME MERIT TO THAT
AND I WISH THEM ALL THE BEST.
>> LOOK.
>> LOOK. YOU’VE STUCK -- YOU STUCK ON
THIS JOB POST-OBAMA TO SEE THIS
FIGHT AGAINST ISIS THROUGH.
WHAT -- HOW -- WHAT WAS THE MOST
EFFECTIVE WAY TO KEEP THE
PRESIDENT FROM DISRUPTING THIS
OPERATION BEFORE IT FINALLY DID
GET DISRUPTED LAST DECEMBER?
WHAT WAS WORKING AT THE TIME?
WHAT WAS MATTIS PULLING OFF?
WHAT WAS TILLERSON PULLING OFF
AT THE TIME TO KEEP TRUMP FROM
DOING THIS THEN?
>> WELL, A COUPLE THINGS.
FIRST, THE CAMPAIGN WAS IN
DECENT SHAPE DURING THE
TRANSITION.
TRANSITION. WE HAD A GOOD TRANSITION.
WE WERE ABOUT 30 KILOMETERS FROM
ROCCA.
ROCCA. WE DID A STRATEGIC REVIEW THAT
WAS VERY PROFESSIONALLY DONE
WITH MATTIS AND TILLERSON AND
THE TEAM.
THE TEAM. A NUMBER OF OPTIONS WERE
PRESENTED TO PRESIDENT TRUMP.
WE COULD LET THE RUSSIANS TAKE
ROCCA.
ROCCA. WE COULD SEND IN 15 TO 20,000
AMERICAN TROOPS WITH AN OPTION
THAT WAS PREFERRED BY TURKEY.
OR WE COULD ARM THE SYRIAN KURDS
TO TAKE ROCCA.
PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID ARM THE
SYRIAN KURDS.
SYRIAN KURDS. I THINK THAT WAS RIGHT.
ALSO, THERE WAS TIMES WHERE
ERDOGAN WAS THREATENING THINGS
AND THERE WAS A PHONE CALL WITH
PRESIDENT TRUMP AND ERDOGAN IN
THE 2017 TIMEFRAME IN WHICH HE
WAS VERY CLEAR.
DON’T CROSS OUR LINES.
SO SOMETHING OBVIOUSLY HE’S MADE
CLEAR IN DECEMBER HE WANTED OUT
OF SYRIA WITHOUT THINKING OF THE
STRATEGIC CONSEQUENCES.
STRATEGIC CONSEQUENCES. AND THE CONSEQUENCES ARE QUITE
DIRE.
DIRE. LOOK, I’VE BEEN TO SYRIA 20 OR
SO TIMES.
SO TIMES. USED TO GO EVERY COUPLE MONTHS.
WHERE RICHARD IS STANDING, THAT
IS THE ISIS CALIFATE.
THESE TOWNS NOBODY’S EVER HEARD
OF, THESE WERE THE MAIN SUPPLY
LINES FOR ISIS.
AND ISIS FIGHTERS, ISIS
MUNITIONS, ISIS EXPLOSIVES WERE
POURING OVER THE SYRIAN BORDER
WHEN ISIS HAD THE CALIFATE AND
PLANNING MAJOR ATTACKS IN EUROPE
AND AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA.
AMERICA. SO ISIS RIGHT NOW GIVEN WHERE
THIS IS GOING IS GOING TO
RECONSTITUTE ITS NETWORKS.
IT WON’T BE THE SCOPE WE SAW IN
2013-2014 BUT’ALREADY HAPPENING.
AND OUR ABILITY TO KEEP THAT
FROM HAPPENING IS UNRAVELING
BECAUSE THE FORCE WE BUILT OF
60,000 SYRIANS AND IT’S NOT JUST
KURDS, IT’S ARABS, CHRISTIANS,
MANY OTHERS.
MANY OTHERS. 60,000 IS NOW BASICALLY
FRACTURING APART AS THEY COME
UNDER PRESSURE FROM TURKEY, FROM
RUSSIA, FROM IRAN.
AND THE AMERICANS ARE EVACUATING
THEIR BASES.
THEIR BASES. SO IT’S A STRATEGIC DISASTER.
>> AND, BRETT, HAVE WE LOST ALL
LEVERAGE WITH TURKEY?
I MEAN, DOES TURKEY EVEN CARE IF
THEY GET KICKED OUT OF NATO?
>> THEY KNOW THEY’RE NOT GOING
TO GET KICKED OUT OF NATO
BECAUSE THERE’S NO WAY TO KICK
ANYBODY OUT OF NATO.
BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS
THEY’VE BOUGHT THE RUSSIAN S 400
SYSTEM AND WE THREATENED
SANCTIONS AND THEY WEREN’T
SANCTIONED.
SANCTIONED. >> OUR NUKES SET IN THEIR
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. >> NO.
>> NO. IT’S A BIG ISSUE.
LOOK, I WAS JUST IN THE MIDDLE
EAST AND HEARD FROM VERY SENIOR
MIDDLE EASTERN LEADERS.
YOU KNOW, THE TURKS BOUGHT THESE
RUSSIAN MISSILE SYSTEMS AND
NOTHING HAPPENED TO THEM.
WHY SHOULDN’T WE BUY THEM?
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, PRESIDENT
ERDOGAN IS GOING TO SEE
PRESIDENT PUTIN AND THAT’S WHERE
THIS WILL BE DECIDED.
AND IF YOU’RE NOT -- IN THE
MIDDLE EAST, IF YOU’RE NOT AT
THE TABLE, YOU’RE ON THE TABLE.
AND SO WE HAVE JUST SEATED ALL
OF OUR ABILITY TO INFLUENCE THE
SITUATION WITH THE RUSSIANS,
ISIS, THE IRANIANS, AND
EVERYBODY ELSE NOW POURING IN.
>> WELL, I THINK THAT’S THE
PHRASE PEOPLE NEED TO HEAR.
IF YOU’RE NOT AT THE TABLE,