>> NBC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE
CORRESPONDENT KRISTEN WELKER,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>>> JOINING US NOW, FORMER WHITE
HOUSE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS
FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA AND DIRECTOR
OF COMMUNICATIONS FOR HILLARY
CLINTON'S 2016 PRESIDENTIAL
CAMPAIGN, JENNIFER PALMIERI,
CO-HOST OF "THE CIRCUS" ON
SHOWTIME.
HER BOOK, "SHE PROCLAIMS, OUR
DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE FROM
A MAN'S WORLD," IS OUT NOW IN
PAPERBACK.
"SHE PROCLAIMS" IS AWESOME.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING
US THIS MORNING.
HOW DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT
IS DOING SO FAR?
YOU'RE LOOKING AT POLL NUMBERS
SHIFTING, SUPPORT FOR ENGAGEMENT
SHIFTING, ALTHOUGH THE PRESIDENT
HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR THAT HE DOES
NOT WANT WORLD WAR III.
>> SO I THINK THAT YOU HAVE
TO -- IF YOU'RE IN THE WHITE
HOUSE AND YOU'RE IN THEIR
POSITION, YOU CAN'T MAKE
JUDGMENTS ON POLICY, YOU KNOW,
WITH SO MUCH AT STAKE IN UKRAINE
BASED OFF OF WHAT'S LIKELY TO BE
POPULAR IN THE UNITED STATES.
YOU HAVE TO WORK ON BRINGING THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE ALONG WITH YOU,
BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE JUDGMENTS
ABOUT WHAT IS MORE LIKELY TO BE
POPULAR.
WHAT YOU CAN DO IS THINK ABOUT,
WHAT ARE WE COMMUNICATING TO THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE ABOUT THE
PRESIDENT?
IS HE PROJECTING STRENGTH?
IS HE BRINGING THE PUBLIC ALONG
WITH HIM?
IS HE ABLE TO HOLD THE ALLIES
TOGETHER?
I THINK IN DOING THAT, THEY'VE
DONE A REALLY GREAT JOB.
JUST SORT OF -- I MEAN, WE ALL
KNOW, IT IS GROUNDBREAKING, THE
MANNER IN WHICH THEY HAVE
COMMUNICATED IN, YOU KNOW,
SAYING AHEAD OF TIME WHAT THE
RUSSIANS ARE GOING TO DO.
I THINK THAT HELPED HIS
CREDIBILITY A LOT.
SO THESE ARE THINGS IN YOUR
CONTROL.
YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT IS
IN YOUR CONTROL, AND YOU CAN'T
GET TOO CAUGHT UP IN
MOMENT-TO-MOMENT POLLS IN A,
LIKE, REALLY DYNAMIC SITUATION
LIKE THIS, WHERE THE STAKES ARE,
YOU KNOW, AS HIGH AS THEY ARE.
>> YEAH.
YOU DON'T KNOW HOW THINGS ARE
GOING TO TURN OUT.
IT'S SUCH A DIFFICULT POLITICAL
POSITION FOR ANY PRESIDENT TO BE
IN HERE.
PAUSE PEOPLE ARE WATCHING THE
BOMBARDMENT EVERY NIGHT.
THEY'RE WATCHING UKRAINIANS
SUFFER.
THEY HAVE THIS NATURAL INSTINCT
OF WANTING TO DO MORE.
MANY WANT TO DO THINGS THAT
WOULD LEAD US TO WORLD WAR III.
SO IT IS INTERESTING, JOE BIDEN
FINDS HIMSELF IN A POSITION,
MUCH LIKE GEORGE H. W. BUSH, AND
THE FIRST GULF WAR, WHERE, YOU
KNOW, HE HAD HIS VICE PRESIDENT.
HE HAD HIS GENERALS.
HE HAD EVERYBODY GOING, "ON TO
BAGHDAD
BAGHDAD."
>> YEAH.
>> BUSH KEPT GOING, HOLD ON.
THAT'S NOT WHY WE WENT INTO
KUWAIT.
HE PAID FOR THAT POLITICALLY.
OF COURSE, HISTORY HAS PROVEN
HIM TO BE RIGHT.
BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU REALLY
CAN'T LOOK AT THE POLL NUMBERS
WEEK-TO-WEEK IN A CRISIS LIKE
THIS, CAN YOU?
>> I HAD NOT CONSIDERED THAT,
THE ANALOGY OF WHAT H.W. BUSH
WENT THROUGH, BUT IT IS APT
HERE.
YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T -- YOU JUST
CAN'T -- IF YOU LOOK AT HOW THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE FEELING,WORR
ABOUT IS, WE HAVE ALL THE
STRENGTH.
WE HAVE ALL THIS UNITY.
WE STILL CAN'T STOP IT.
SO WHAT IS IT ALL FOR?
I THINK THAT RATHER THAN TRYING
TO MAKE THIS A SUPERPOWER VERSUS
SOOEP POWER
SUPERPOWER, AS THE WORLD WANTS
TO DO, IF YOU MAKE THIS THE U.S.
AND NATO ALLIES, THE WESTERN
WORLD VERSUS RUSSIA, THIS IS NOT
JUST ABOUT UKRAINE, THIS IS
ABOUT THE WORLD.
IT'S THE WORLD CIRCLING AROUND
RUSSIA AND PUTTING THE PRESSURE
ON THEM.
YOU CAN'T JUST WORRY ABOUT
UKRAINE.
IT'S NON-PROLIFERATION.
IF RUSSIA DOESN'T PAY A VERY
HIGH PRICE FOR WHAT THEY ARE
DOING IN UKRAINE, REGARDLESS OF
HOW THIS GETS RESOLVED
DIPLOMATICALLY, WHAT DO OTHER
NUCLEAR POWERS THINK?
THEY THINK THEY CAN JUST WALTZ
INTO COUNTRIESIMPUNITY,
AND THAT'S HOW YOU TAKE CONTROL.
SO IT'S NOT JUST WHAT'S
HAPPENING IN UKRAINE.
I THINK THEY ARE HAVING TO THINK
AT THESE MULTIPLE LEVELS OF HOW
THIS ALL COULD SPIN OUT.
SO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE'S VIEWS
MATTER A LOT, BUT YOU HAVE TO
BE -- THEY HAVE TO BE THINKING
STEPS AND STEPS AHEAD OF WHERE
THIS MAY GO.
ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, JOE BIDEN
IS A GUY WHO UNDERSTANDS
HISTORY.
ULTIMATELY, WHERE THIS IS GOING
TO GO.
>> YEAH.
>> PETER, GOING BACK TO THE 41
COMPARISON, YOU COULD SAY THE
SAME THING ABOUT THE ENDING OF
THE COLD WAR.
>> YEAH.
>> I MEAN, IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT
FOR BUSH 41 TO NOT TAKE A
VICTORY LAP.
>> RIGHT.
>> AFTER THE SOVIET UNION
COLLAPSED, THERE WERE A LOT OF
PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT HE SHOULD
HAVE BEEN MORE GINWAVING THE FLA
AND SAYING, "WE WON."
HE REFUSED TO DO IT.
HE UNITED GERMANY, DESPITE THE
FACT OUR ALL MEAN, HE
DEFINITELY HAD AN EYE TOWARD
HISTORY, EVEN THOUGH IT DIDN'T
HELP HIM POLITICALLY AT THE
TIME.
YOU SENSE JOE BIDEN -- I SENSE
AT LEAST, I DON'T WANT TO PUT
WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH, THAT JOE
BIDEN IS DOING THE SAME THING
RIGHT NOW.
HE IS LOOKING AT THE GRAND SWEEP
OF HISTORY AND, YOU KNOW, HE'LL
WORRY ABOUT THE POLLS LATER.
>> YEAH.
WHAT BUSH DID IN THAT ERA WAS TO
MIX AGGRESSION WITH RESTRAINT,
RIGHT?
IN OTHER WORDS, HE KNEW HOW TO
PUSH BACK IN A COMMANDING WAY
WHEN THE IRAQIS INVADED KUWAIT.
NOBODY DOUBTED HIS RESOLVE
BECAUSE HE SHOVED THEM OUT OF
KUWAIT WITH A COALITION IN THE
LIKES OF WHAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN IN
A LONG TIME.
HE EXERCISED RESTRAINT, AS YOU
PUT IT, ABOUT NOT DANCING ON THE
BERLIN WALL.
UNDERSTANDING WHERE GORBACHEV
WAS COMING FROM, TRYING TO HELP
HIM RATHER THAN TAUNT OR TEASE
HIM IN THAT SENSE.
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEN AND
NOW THOUGH THAT'S SO STRIKING TO
ME IS IT IS OUR POLITICS.
GEORGE H. W. BUSH ROSE TO 89%
APPROVAL RATING IN THE POLLS
AROUND THE TIME OF THE GULF WAR.
HIS SON ROSE TO 90% APPROVAL
RATING AROUND 9/11.
JOE BIDEN HAS SUPPORT FOR HIS
POLICIES BUT NOT FOR HIMSELF.
HE IS STILL IN THE MID 40s,
RIGHT?
IN OTHER WORDS, THERE IS UNITY,
TO SOME EXTENT, ABOUT THE
AMERICAN VIEW OF WHAT IS GOING
ON.
THEY HAVE DECIDED THAT RUSSIA IS
THE BAD GUY HERE AND WE HAVE TO
TAKE ACTION.
THE POLICIES JOE BIDEN PUT IN
PLACE ARE APPROPRIATE.
IF ANYTHING, SOME WANT HIM TO DO
FURTHER.
IT'S NOT TRANSLATING INTO RALLY
AROUND THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF
THE WAY IT HISTORICALLY HAS,
WHICH I THINK IS A CHANGE IN OUR
DYNAMICS.
I THINK IT TALKS ABOUT THE
POLARIZATION OF OUR SOCIETY, WE
CAN'T GET BEHIND A PRESIDENT,
EVEN IF WE THINK HE IS DOING THE
RIGHT THING.
>> CAN'T GET BEHIND FACTS
SOMETIMES, THE SAME FACTS IN
THIS COUNTRY, WHICH IS AN ISSUE.
BUT IT IS INTERESTING TO SEE
SORT OF THE DOMESTIC SQUABBLES
THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH, WE'VE
BEEN DEALING WITH IN THIS
COUNTRY, WHETHER IT BE OVER
MASKS OR VACCINATION POLICIES OR
WHATEVER ELSE, SORT OF GET MUTED
BY THIS HUGE SCHOOLING THAT
AMERICANS ARE GETTING FROM THE
UKRAINIAN PEOPLE ABOUT THE
IMPORTANCE OF DEMOCRACY.
>> IT REALLY IS A CLARIFYING
MOMENT.
>> IT IS A WORTHY FIGHT, RIGHT?
I WISH THAT, YOU KNOW -- IT'D BE
GREAT IF THE COUNTRY WAS
RALLYING AROUND THE COMMANDER IN
CHIEF AS WELL AS RALLYING AROUND
THIS WORTHY FIGHT, BUT IT IS
REALLY GREAT TO SEE PEOPLE
UNITED.
ALSO, THAT IS AN ACTUAL FIGHT.
THAT'S AN ACTUAL PROBLEM.
>> EXACTLY.
>> THAT IS, YOU KNOW, OPPOSED TO
THE STUPID --
>> THE TRUCKERS ARE STILL
DRIVING AROUND WASHINGTON.
PEOPLE YELLING AT THEM GOING,
WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
>> YEAH, I GOT STRUCK WITH THE
TRUCKERS.
>> BY THE WAY, NOTHING WRONG
WITH THE TRUCKERS DOING WHAT THE
TRUCKERS ARE DOING.
>> I KNOW.
>> MOST OF THE THINGS THE
TRUCKERS WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT
ORIGINALLY ARE GONE.
>> YEAH.
>> SO, YOU KNOW --
>> I TALKED TO THEM LAST WEEK.
YEAH, THEY JUST KEPT SAYING
MANDATES.
I WAS LIKE, BUT THERE AREN'T ANY
MANDATES.
THAT'S WHY NONE OF US ARE
WEARING MASKS.
>> LIKE THE MANDATES THAT MADE
THEM GET FIVE SHOTS BEFORE THEY
STARTED KINDERGARTEN AND THEIR
CHILDREN.
IT IS INTERESTING HOW, SUDDEN
HI, THINGS THAT HAD BEEN SO
COMMON PLACE BECOME SHOCKING
OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS.
JENNIFER, THANK YOU FOR BEING
WITH US.
>> JENNIFER PALMIERI, THANK YOU.