♪ ♪ ♪ ( APPLAUSE )
>> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY! WELCOME BACK TO "THE LATE SHOW."
FOLKS, MY NEXT GUEST IS AN EMMY AND PEABODY AWARD-WINNING
DIRECTOR WHO HAS BEEN MAKING DOCUMENTARIES FOR THE PAST 40
PLEASE WELCOME BACK TO "THE YEARS. LATE
SHOW," KEN BURNS! ♪ ♪ ♪
( APPLAUSE )
AGAIN. >> GOOD TO SEE YOU.
>> Stephen: WE ALWAYS LEARN SO MUCH ABOUT OUR OWN COUNTRY FROM
YOU, KEN BURNS. WE DO.
NATION, AND I'M VERY GRATEFUL WE LEARN A LOT ABOUT OUR FOR THE
THINGS I'VE LEARNED ABOUT MY NATION.
NOT EVERYTHING WE LEARN IS A HAPPY STORY ABOUT THE YUT.
>> NO, IT IS NOT. >> Stephen: AND YOUR LATEST
DOCUMENT IS "THE U.S. AND THE HOLOCAUST."
WHICH IS HEARTBREAKING. BUT FASCINATING FILM.
WHAT DID YOU LEARN IN MAKING THIS FILM ABOUT THE UNITED
SATES AND OUR RESPONSE TO THE HOLOCAUST AND-- PHEW.
THAT'S THE SIMPLE ONE, TWO >> YEAH, WE FAILED. -WORD
ANSWER. WE THINK WE'RE SEPARATED BY AN
OCEAN AND CONTINENT FROM WHAT HAPPENED AND THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW
WHAT WAS GOING ON. WE WERE INTERESTED IN LOOKING
IN, SARAH BOTSTEIN AND LYNN NOVIK, WE WERE INTERESTED IN
LOOKING AT WHAT WE DIDN'T DO AND WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE DONE.
THE UNITED STATES, LET'S MAKE IT CLEAR, IS NOT RESPONSIBLE IN THE
HOLOCAUST IN ANY WAY. IT IS NOT EXPLICIT.
HOWEVER, WE LET IN 225,000 IMMIGRANTS, MORE THAN ANY
MORE THAN ANY OTHER SOVEREIGN OTHER-- I MEAN, REFUGEES-- NATION.
BUT WE COULD HAVE LET IN FIVE TIMES OR 10 TIMES AS MANY AND WE
AND THE REASON WHY WE DIDN'T DIDN'T. IS
BECAUSE AMERICA HAD BEEN FOR A LONG TIME HUGELY ANTI-SEMITIC.
IT HAD BEEN RACIST AND ANTI-IMMIGRANT, XENOPHOBIC,
NATIVIST-- WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.
SOUND FAMILIAR? WE BELIEVED IN EUGENICS WHICH
WAS A PSEUDOSCIENCE ATTEMPTING A HIERARCHY OF RACISM AND
ETHNICITY S. >> Stephen: SKULL SHAPE,
STUFF LIKE THAT. >> EXACTLY.
THERE'S ONLY ONE RACE. IT'S THE HUMAN RACE.
SO WHEN WE WERE FACED IN THE 1930s AND ISOLATIONISM AND A
DEPRESSION, WHICH MEANT YOU DIDN'T WANT SOMEBODY TAKING FOOD
OFF YOUR TABLE, WE JUST DIDN'T DO WHAT WE COULD HAVE DONE, AT
NOT JUST PRESIDENT ROOSEVELT EVERY LEVEL. WHO
OFTEN GETS A LOT OF BLAME. HE ADDED MORE YOUS TO HIS
ADMINISTRATION THAN ANY OTHER PRESIDENT.
HIS SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY WAS A YOU AND A NEIGHBOR AND
BUT HE KNEW WHAT-- IT WAS FRIEND. HUGELY
ANTI-SEMITIC. >> Stephen: THAT WAS THE
CONTEXT ABOUT WHAT THE UNITED STATES HAD AND WHAT WAS
HAPPENING IN GERMANY AND EASTERN EUROPE.
WHAT DID WE KNOW? WHAT'S THE EARLIEST POINT AT
WHICH WE KNEW THERE WAS A-- QUOTE, UNQUOTE-- FINAL SOLUTION
GOING ON? >> HITLER TAKES OFFICE IN
THERE WERE 3,000 ARTICLES JANUARY OF 1933. ABOUT
THE MISTREATMENT OF JEWS JUST IN 1933.
WE GOT THE NEWS PRETTY QUICKLY. A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE STATE
DEPARTMENT SLOW-WALKED THE NEWS, WOULDN'T PUT IT OUT.
OTHERS GOT OUT. SO PEOPLE JUST DIDN'T BELIEVE
IT. IT WAS TREATED AS A WAR RUMOR.
OR WHEN THEY DID IT, THEY THOUGHT, MAYBE EARLY ON, MAYBE
OR THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE JEWS DESERVED IT. THEIR
AND THEN WHEN IT GOT REALLY PROBLEMS. BAD,
THEY SAID THIS IS TERRIBLE, THIS IS A HORRIBLE THING.
BUT I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S A MILLION PEOPLE.
I BET IT WAS THREE MILLION OR SO.
OR "I STILL DON'T WANT TO LET ANYBODY ELSE IN.
EVEN AFTER ALL THE PICTURES THE. CAME
CONCENTRATION CAMPS, ONLY 5% BACK FROM THE LIBERATED OF
AMERICANS WANTED TO LET IN MORE REFUGEES.
WE FAILED IN HUMANITY'S AND THAT'S ON US. DARKEST
MOMENT TO BE WHAT WE HAD ALWAYS CLAIMED TO BE-- THIS BEACON OF
LIBERTY, THE HOME OF IMMIGRANTS, A NATION OF IMMIGRANTS-- WHICH
BUT WE ARE ALSO EQUALLY DRAWN WE ARE AS WELL. TO
THE IDEA OF DEMONIZING IMMIGRANTS AND MAKING THEM THE
OTHER. >> Stephen: WHAT DID HITLER--
HE WAS INTERESTED IN AMERICAN HISTORY.
>> YES. >> Stephen: WHAT DID HE GLEAN
FROM OUR HISTORY THAT HE SAW AS AN EXAMPLE?
>> GOT ANY SCOTCH? >> Stephen: I DO, ACTUALLY.
I'VE GOT A LOT OF SCOTCH.
( APPLAUSE )
HE ADMIRED THE WAY WE HAD SUPPRESSED AND MURDERED NATIVE
AMERICANS AND ISOLATED THEM INTO CAGES.
HE CALLED RESERVATIONS THAT. EY ADMIRED OUR 1924 JOHNSON -REID
WHICH AFTER HAVING OPEN IMMIGRATION ACT. BORDERS
FROM THE 1870s TO 1920, WHERE MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE
CAME IN, INCLUDING MILLIONS OF JEWS, AND NEW YORK CITY HAD
ONE-QUARTER OF NEW YORK CITY'S POPULATION WAS JEWISH, AND MORE
JEWS THAN ANY OTHER CITY ON EARTH.
THEY SLAMMED THE DOOR. THEY SAID ONLY THOSE NORDIC,
PROTESTANT, WHITE COUNTRIES COULD HAVE A BIG QUOTA --
>> Stephen: OUR PREVIOUS PRESIDENT JUST SAID, "WHY NOT
MORE PEOPLE FROM NORWAY?" >> YEAH.
>> Stephen: IS THERE RESONANCE FROM THESE LESSONS,
UNFORTUNATELY, TO WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW?
BECAUSE YOUR STORY BRINGS US UP TO THE PRESENT.
IT DOESN'T END IN THE PAST. >> YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE FIRST
TIME THAT WE FELT-- BECAUSE WE SET THE TABLE WITH ALL THE STUFF
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, HITLER ADMIRED THAT ACT.
THE GERMAN JURISTS CAME TO THE UNITED STATES TO STUDY OUR JIM
CROW LAWS SO THEY THEY COULD FASHION IN 1935 THE
ANTI-DISCRIMINATORY LAWS AGAINST THE JEWS THERE.
AND WHEN WE PROTESTED AS A NATION, THEY LOOKED AT US AND
SAID, AS THE HISTORIAN PETER HAYES IN OUR FILM SAYS,s,
MISSISSIPPI. THE.
MEANING YOU TREAT THESE PEOPLE AS INFERIOR.
WE THINK THESE PEOPLE ARE INFERIOR.
SO DON'T TELL US HOW TO CONSTRUCT OUR BUSINESS.
THIS IS THE FIRST FILM IF IN WHICH WOO WE TALKED HERE ABOUT
DOESN'T REPEAT ITSELF BUT IT MARK TWINE SAID, HISTORY RHYMES.
WHEN WE BEGAN THIS PROJECT IN 2015, IN A DIFFERENT KIND OF
AMERICA, THIS RHYMES ALL HISTORY.
EVERY FILM I HAVE MADE HAS RHYMED IN SOME WAYS.
BY THE TIME WE WERE FINISHING IT, IT WAS RHYMING IN EVERY
OTHER SENTENCE IN A WAY THAT REQUIRED US TO HAVE A DISMOUNT.
LAST FEW MINUTES OF THE FILM JUST IMPRESSIONISTIC IN THE THAT
BRINGS US UP THROUGH GEORGE LINCOLN ROCKWELL, THE DYLAN ROOF
WHO WAS ANTI-JEWISH AND ANTI-CATHOLIC, IN ADDITION TO
BEING ANTIBLACK, WHO MURDERED IN MOTHER EMANUEL IN CHARLESTON.
THE "UNITE THE RIGHT" RALLY IN CHARLOTTESVILLE.
JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US. THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL ANXIETY
AND THE REASON FOR CLOSING THE DOORS, THE WORRY THAT WE WOULD
BE OUTBRED BY THESE FOREIGNERS EVEN THOUGH STRENGTH --
>> Stephen: HOW DO AMERICANS RISE ABOVE THESE NATIVIST, DARK,
SOMETIMES VIOLENT IMPULSES? >> YOU TELL STORIES ABOUT IT.
YOU BRING OUT THE FACTS. YOU BRING THEM TO LIGHT.
YOU TELL THE STORIES, AS DIFFICULT AS THEY MAY BE, AS
UNCOMFORTABLE AS THEY MAY BE. >> Stephen: KEN, THANK YOU FOR
"THE U.S. AND THE HOLOCAUST" TELLING THOSE STORIES. IS
AVAILABLE NOW ON PBS. KEN BURNS, EVERYBODY!
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH A PERFORMANCE BY SUDAN ARCHIVES.
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