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amna: A deal on the debt ceiling
and the 2024 presidential race
ramps up.
At the end of this is a week in
politics, we turn to the
analysis of Capehart and
Abernathy, Jonathan Capehart and
Gary Abernathy.
Welcome to you both.
We have avoided economic
disaster with the debt ceiling
deal.
People on both sides of the deal
seem unhappy in some way, which
as the saying goes, probably
means they did something right.
From the democratic point of
view and the president's point
of view, was it a good deal?
Jonathan: It was in that the
bill that passed as part of the
debt ceiling had lots of drastic
cuts to social programs and a
lot of the president's
priorities.
This deal does away with a lot
of those things.
They had to make concessions,
work requirements and other
things, but when you look at the
details of the bill,
particularly the one where it
says congress has to go through
the appropriations process, has
the 12 appropriations bills and
if you don't do it by the end of
the fiscal year, there will be a
continuing resolution and it
will be set at fy 22 or 23
levels good that's a huge
victory for a democratic
president dealing with a
Republican house.
Amna: Gary, how do you see this?
Was this a good deal for the
Republicans to make?
Gary: I agree it was a good deal
for president Biden.
It was also a good deal for
Kevin Mccarthy.
Particularly president Biden.
Not necessarily because of the
details but because a deal was
made, a truly bipartisan deal.
A lot of times we call things
bipartisan because they pick off
one or two or three votes of the
other party, usually Republicans
and people say that was a
bipartisan vote.
This was I any definition a
bipartisan vote in the house and
senate across the board and
that's something president Biden
can and will take a lot of
credit for and rightfully so.
It's been a long time.
I'm old enough to remember when
these kind of things happening
congress more regularly.
I was a very small child.
[Laughter]
But it was kind of nice to see
that again.
For Kevin Mccarthy, he delivered
not just a majority of a
majority of Republicans, he
delivered a super majority of
Republicans in the house.
A good day for both Mccarthy and
Biden.
Amna: There were a lot of
questions about house speaker
Mccarthy would be able to handle
the far right neighbors of his
conference.
In particular when you heard him
talking to reporters after the
bill passed the house, it told
you everything you needed to
know about how he felt in the
moment.
>> This is fabulous.
This is one of the best nights
I've in here.
I thought it would be hard, I
thought it would be almost
impossible just to get to 218.
There was a whole new day here.
Amna: Is that a man newly
empowered, no longer worried
about being removed from
speakership?
Jonathan: I think so.
This is how I know speaker
Mccarthy is extremely happy.
I don't recognize that voice.
That voice is three or four
octaves higher than I have ever
heard it.
Let me give him his props.
The guy got the gavel after 15
ballots.
Everyone underestimated him and
said he was going to be led
around by the far right and the
house freedom caucus, and to
Gary's point, the fact that the
bill passed the house with a
super majority of Republicans,
that over 300 votes with more
Democrats voting for it than
anticipated or expected, that is
a big win for bipartisanship but
I think it is a political win
for the speaker that should put
to rest this idea that this is a
guy who is literally a vote away
from being ousted.
Amna: Do you agree?
He has the same narrow majority,
the same members unhappy with
the deal earlier remain unhappy
with it.
Gary: I've got one name for you
-- Jim Jordan.
He voted for this bill.
When he gets Jim Jordan to vote
for this bill, the founder of
the freedom caucus, I believe,
it's hard for other freedom
caucus members to really mount
much of a defense against Kevin
Mccarthy.
I agree, I think he strengthened
himself and I don't think
Republicans have the stomach
right now for the tour moral --
turmoil they went through in
January when they elected him.
Amna: What does this say about
the process more broadly when
you take a step back?
That's the big question now.
Coming out of 2011, a lot of
conversations about lessons
learned and the Republican take
away is this is how we have
leverage and do this every time.
Did negotiating with Republicans
further empower the opposition
to do this every time?
Jonathan: They might think so
but you can't continue to hold
the American economy and the
global economy hostage to try to
get through your fiscal
priorities that you can get
through in the normal
appropriations process.
Amna: They came very close.
Jonathan: But they didn't
succeed.
I think going forward the
president should investigate
whether he can use the 14th
amendment, do a filing.
Let's test the question.
I also think after the next
election if there is a
democratic house and the
president wins reelection and
the senate remains in the house
of Democrats -- in the hands of
Democrats, there should be a
debate about whether the debt
ceiling should be done away with
altogether.
Honestly I think it should.
We should do away with the
hostagetaking.
Amna: Gary?
Should we do away with the debt
ceiling?
Gary: It's an interesting
question because it is such an
exercise in brinksmanship every
time we have it.
Let's be clear, nothing in
politics is beyond dealmaking.
Some people want to say
hostagetaking.
That happens on both sides.
Every bill is an ability to
horse trade and so on.
Republicans were very smart, I'm
going to say Mccarthy was very
smart, in knowing how far to go.
You could push it too far.
Who would have gotten blamed for
this not happening?
As always, it would've been the
Republicans blamed for this
falling apart and the debt
ceiling not being lifted and all
of these things that would have
happened as a result of that.
But listen, every opportunity,
everything in politics is an
opportunity to make a deal and
this was good.
Republicans knew how far they
could go.
Joe Biden, a dealmaker from the
senate, was never a verse from
the beginning from saying we
will have to make a deal.
He had memos from his party
saying don't deal with them at
all, do a clean bill, and he
said no.
He likes the art of making deals
and that is ok.
Amna: Let's turn to 2024 because
we expect more presidential
campaign announcements on the
Republican side next week,
including Mike pence, Chris
Christie and Doug burgum.
They will join the field of
candidates that includes Ron
Desantis, Nikki Haley, Asa
Hutchinson, Tim Scott and Donald
Trump.
Jonathan, take a look at that
entire field and how do the new
candidates set themselves apart?
Jonathan: Chris Christie, easy.
I know what lane he is in.
He is that car in the motorcade
that is the demolition car.
Motorcades have a car on the
lookout for anything trying to
disrupt a presidential
motorcade.
That is the car that has for
that destructive car.
That is Chris Christie.
He will be in the campaign and
on the debate stage taking
wacks at Donald Trump.
As someone who knows Donald
Trump well, ran against him,
worked with him, did debate prep
with him before, so he knows
them really well.
It's the perfect way to take him
down.
Former vice president Mike
pence, I don't know what his
lien is.
He's running in a party that has
been remade in the image of the
man who is a cited
insurrectionist who ran through
the capital screening hang Mike
pence.
I don't know where his votes
will come from.
Amna: Gary, is there a lane for
Mike pence in this Republican
primary?
Gary: I agree that there is
probably not.
I also disagree that I don't
think there is a lane for Chris
Christie either.
This week we were asked to look
at the Republican field.
A lot of readers don't think
they are right thinking but
right-leaning columnists, but
most of us agreed that the Maga
lane is the only lane.
It's just a matter of can anyone
other than trump be the guy
standing at the end?
I think it will come down to
trump versus Santos -- de San
tis.
Can Desantis make the case that
he is Maga enough to build the
following and move them away
from Donald Trump?
Because Desantis is definitely
more electable in November.
He's got to make the case, you
may love Donald Trump, but he
cannot win in November.
I think that's what this primary
is going to come down to.
Amna: Jonathan, there is a long
way to go, cannot say this
enough.
But Gary is right and we've all
seen it in the polls, trump and
Desantis made the front runners
for now.
How are the Democrats looking at
this, and in particular, how is
the campaign of president Biden
looking at, as we've seen some
of the presidential matchups so
far, recent polls, how president
Biden would fare against former
president trump, and there was
one showing him against Ron
Desantis as well.
We should note that the margin
of error is about 2.3%.
How are Democrats looking at
that?
Jonathan: I think Democrats are
still champing at the bit to run
against Donald Trump again.
I think the president is clear
eyed and focused that no matter
who his Republican challenger is
going to be, probably former
president trump, the mission is
to remind people about who we
are as Americans and what we
stand for as Americans, no
matter Republican or Democrat.
We stand for the rule of law and
treating each other with respect
and kindness and dignity and
respect the freedom and liberty
of all of us.
I think as long as he stays on
that message, no matter who he
is running against, he stands a
better chance of being
reelected.
Amna: Jonathan Capehart and Gary
Abernathy, thank you for joining
us today.
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