THERE IS A LOT GOING ON.
I TURN TO A BIG DIFFERENT STORY
WITH A STRAIGHTFORWARD QUESTION.
HOW SERIOUS IS THIS FEDERAL SEX
TRAFFICKING PROBE INVOLVING
REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN MATT
GAETZ?
HERES ONE BIG INDICATOR.
THE FEDS HAVE HIS iPHONE.
ITS NO SMALL MATTER FOR THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO SEIZE THE
PHONE OF AN ELECTED MEMBER OF A
CO-EQUAL BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT.
"POLITICO" REPORTING THATS WHAT
THEY HAVE DONE AND DATING IT ALL
THE WAY BACK TO THE WINTER WITH
REGARDS THE CONGRESSMAN WAS
TELLING PEOPLE ABOUT HIMSELF.
GAETZ DENYIED ALL WRONGDOING.
THEY ARE PROBINGBAHAMAS, WHICH I
YOUNG WOMAN KEY TO THE
INVESTIGATION, WHO WAS 18 AT THE
TIME OF THAT TRIP.
MEANWHILE, THERE MAY BE NEW HEAT
ON GAETZ GIVEN INDICATIONS HIS
INDICTED ALLY IS COOPERATING
WITH INVESTIGATORS AND ACCUSING
GAETS OF OFFERING, QUOTE, CASH
FOR GIFTS IN EXCHANGE FOR SEX.
WE ARE JOINED BY MARK KA PEW
TOE, SENIOR REPORTER FOR
"POLITICO" WHO BROKE THIS VERY
STORY ABOUT THE FEDS GETTING
GAETZS CELL PHONE AND JOE
WALSH, A FRIEND OF OURS AND
NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT
FOR "THE NATION."
MARK, WHAT DID YOU FIND IN YOUR
REPORTING?
>> WELL, WHAT YOU SAID.
WE ALSO HAVE MORE DETAILS ON THE
BAHAMAS TRIP, WHO WENT ALONG.
THERE WERE TWO PRIVATE PLANES.
THE COMMERCIAL PLANE AND AT
LEAST FIVE WOMEN WHO WENT ALONG
ON THE TRIP.
ONE OF THE WOMEN WHO WENT ON THE
TRIP WE SPOKE TO THAT THERE WAS
NO PROSTITUTION THAT HAPPENED.
THATS WHAT INVESTIGATORS ARE
INVESTIGATING IN RELATION TO THE
BAJAHAMAS TRIP.
BUT SHE ALSO SAID EVERYONE WAS
18 OR OLDER.
THAT HAS PARTICULAR SALIENCE IN
THE CASE OF THIS TEEN WHO IS THE
ALLEGED VICTIM OF SEX
TRAFFICKING BY GAETZS ALLY AND
LETS JUST PROBABLY SAY FORMER
FRIEND JOEL GREENBERG, THE LOCAL
FLORIDA COUNTY TAX COLLECTOR,
WHO IS CHARGED WITH THAT ACT IN
JULY OR BACK IN AUGUST.
YES, JULY.
EXCUSE ME.
THE DATES ARE WHOOSHING AROUND
IN MY HEAD.
THATS THE BIG 10,000 FOOT VIEW
OF WHAT WE WERE ABLE TO UNCOVER.
THE PHONE THING WAS OF
PARTICULAR SALIENCE.
>> YEAH.
ITS A BIG PROBLEM FOR MATT
GAETZ IF THE FEDS GOT HIS PHONE
AND THAT WENT IN TO GET CLEARED
THROUGH A JUDGE, THAT KIND OF
SURVEILLANCE.
MARK, THIS STORY HAS REALLY
ACCELERATED WITH THE REPORTING
OF THE NEW YORK TIMES AND YOUR
REPORTING IN "POLITICO."
I DONT KNOW IF YOU WILL ANSWER
THIS QUESTION, BUT IM GOING TO
ASK IT.
DOES YOUR REPORTING REFLECT THAT
MATT GAETZ MAY HAVE A
LEGAL/CRIMINAL PROBLEM OR DOES
YOUR REPORTING AT THIS POINT
REFLECT A LOT OF STUFF AROUND
HIM THAT THE FEDS ARE LOOKING AT
BUT THAT HE MAY NOT BE IN THINGS
THAT ARE CHARGEABLE?
>> WELL, IM GOING TO DODGE THIS
A BIT.
IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU DEFINE
PROBLEM.
WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS
SEIZING YOUR PHONE, YOU GOT A
PROBLEM.
WHEN YOUR ALLIES ARE SAYING,
HEY, YEAH, MAYBE HE HAD SEX WITH
HER, BUT IT WAS WHEN SHE WAS
18.5.
WHEN YOU ARE MEASURING PEOPLES
AGES IN FRACTIONS, THATS A
PROBLEM.
IS HE GOING TO BE INDICTED?
THATS A WHOLE OTHER MATTER.
THE TEEN OR FORMER TEEN WHO IS
NOW 21, THE QUESTION IS WHAT HAS
SHE SAID TO THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT, IF ANYTHING.
AND WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE THAT
SHE CAN BACK UP OR SHED MORE
LIGHT ON.
THEN OBVIOUSLY THERE IS THE JOEL
GREENBERG MATTER THAT HE MIGHT
HAVE SOME PROBLEMS AS A WITNESS
AGAINST GAETZ.
THIS IS A GUY WHO NOT ONLY HAD
SEX WITH A 17-YEAR-OLD BUT
FALSELY
FALSELY SMEARED A REPORT.
>> JOAN, TAKE A LISTEN TO
REPUBLICAN STEVE SCALISE ON ALL
THIS.
>> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HEARD A LOT
OF STORIES.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY I HAVE READ
THE MEDIA REPORTS, BUT THERE HAS
BEEN NOTHING THAT WE HAVE SEEN
YET FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE.
IF SOMETHING IS GOING ON,
OBVIOUSLY WELL FIND OUT ABOUT
IT.
YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW ITS HARD TO
SPECULATE ON RUMORS.
BUT, YOU KNOW, IF SOMETHING
REALLY FORMAL HAPPENED FROM
JUSTICE, WE WOULD, OF COURSE, WE
ACT AND TAKE ACTION.
>> JOAN?
>> WELL, SEIZING HIS PHONE IS A
LITTLE BIT FORMAL.
I MEAN, THATS REALLY, AS MARK
SAID, NEVER A GOOD SIGN.
I DO GET THE PROBLEMS WITH
GREENBERG AS A STAR WITNESS
AGAINST GAETZ.
BUT ITS STILL VERY INTRIGUING
WHAT THE TIMES REPORTED THAT HE
IS COOPERATING.
AND HIS LAWYER HAD A WEIRD
COMMENT IN THE TIMES STORY,
SOMETHING LIKE IM SURE MATT
GAETZ IS NOT GOING TO BE VERY
COMFORTABLE TODAY.
SO THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A
SHOT ACROSS THE BOW.
NO REAL IDEA WHAT IT MEANS.
IT IS REALLY NOT LEGAL
TERMINOLOGY.
BUT THERE IS -- ITS NOT LIKE
THEYRE CLEARLY STICKING
TOGETHER.
AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE
INVOLVED WITH THIS.
SO, YOU KNOW, THERE IS JUST --
THERE ARE A LOT OF WITNESSES,
FRANKLY.
AND I THINK WERE GOING TO LEARN
A LOT MORE.
>> AND, JOAN, WHAT DO YOU THINK
OF SOMETHING WE HAVE TOUCHED ON,
WHICH IS THAT MATT GAETZ ROSE TO
PROMINENCE CHIEFLY THROUGH FOX
NEWS AND BEING A VERY LOUD
DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTERS AND HES
NOT GETTING MUCH HELP FROM
EITHER OF THOSE PARTS OF THE
RIGHT WING MOVEMENT RIGHT NOW.
>> NO, NOT FOX, NOT TRUMP AND
NOT RON DeSANTIS, WHO HES VERY
CLOSE TO DURING DeSANTIS
CAMPAIGNS.
HE WONT TALK ABOUT HIM EITHER.
KEVIN McCARTHY WONT TALK ABOUT
HIM.
A LOT OF FORMER ALLIES ARE NOT
THERE FOR HIM.
AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO
CONSIDER IF INNOCENCE, THESE ARE
TEA LEAVES, THESE ARE NOT LEGAL
FACTS.
BUT WHEN YOUR FRIENDS START, YOU
KNOW, NOT COMMENTING ON YOU,
DONALD TRUMP WOULDNT EVEN SEE
HIM, PEOPLE ARE HEARING BAD
THINGS.
PEOPLE ARE HEARING MORE THINGS
THAN IM HEARING.
SO, YOU KNOW, I DONT THINK IT
LOOKS GOOD FOR HIM.
THATS PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT OF
WISHFUL THINKING BECAUSE, YOU
KNOW, I LIKE TO BELIEVE IN KARMA
AND HIS SHOULDNT BE GOOD.
>> YEAH.
WELL, WELL SEE.
I MEAN, EVERY TIME WE REPORT THE
CASE WERE CLEAR ABOUT HES
DENIED ALL ALLEGATIONS.
HE HASNT BEEN INDICTED FOR
ANYTHING.
IT IS NOT LIKE TRUMP IS BUSY.
>> NO.
NO, HES NOT.
I MEAN, I COULD PROBABLY GO SEE
HIM.
>> YOU COULD TAKE A MEETING IN
FLORIDA.
>> SURE, YEAH.
SO WHY HE COULDNT FIND THE TIME
FOR POOR MATT, I DONT KNOW.
BUT ITS NOT GOOD.
ITS NOT A GOOD THING.
>> MARK?
>> YEAH.
IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT A
NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN TRUMPS
ORBIT HAVE ON THE RECORD DENIED
THAT.
I DONT WANT TO THROW SHADE ON
THE REPORTER OR THE REPORT, BUT
I THINK WE HAVE TO REMEMBER
THIS.
A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WHO
SURROUNDED THE PRESIDENT BOTH IN
THE WHITE HOUSE -- OR THE FORMER
PRESIDENT, DONALD TRUMP, IN THE
WHITE HOUSE AND HIS CAMPAIGN FOR
VIPERS.
THERE WAS A BOOK CALLED "TEAM OF
VIPER" WRITTEN BY ONE OF THE
STAFFERS ABOUT HOW THEY ALL STAB
EACH OTHER IN THE BACK.
AND DONALD TRUMP TAKES MATT
GAETZS CALL.
WHEN MATT GAETZ WANTED TO HAVE A
PARDON FOR ROGER STONE, HE
TALKED TO THE PRESIDENT DIRECTLY
ABOUT IT.
MATT GAETZ IS NOT GOING TO
FORMER WHITE HOUSE STAFF AND
TRUMP STAFF TO GET AN
APPOINTMENT WITH DONALD TRUMP.
IF HE WANTS AN APPOINTMENT WITH
DONALD TRUMP, HELL CALL HIM UP.
I FIND IT DOUBTFUL THAT GAETZ
ASKED THE WHITE HOUSE STAFF TO
BE PARDONED AND I FOUND IT
DOUBTFUL HE WENT TO THE
MAR-A-LAGO STAFF THAT SAID, HEY,
YOU PEOPLE WHO HATE ME, CAN YOU
HELP ME SEE THE PRESIDENT?
I THINK GAETZ REALIZES HES A
BIT TOXIC RIGHT NOW.
>> BRIEFLY, MARK, IT SOUNDS LIKE
SHADE OR NOT, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU
ARE QUESTIONING THE PREMISE OF
SOME OF THOSE REPORTS THAT PUT
THEIR STOCK, INCLUDING NEW YORK
TIMES ON STAFF-LEVEL
CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE YOU ARE
SAYING IN YOUR REPORTING THATS