Peter: To praise Mccarthy might
not help Mccarthy.
[Laughter]
William: Let's pick it to the
people who want to replace
president Biden.
The race for the Republican
nomination stepped up with
president trump and Ron Desantis
attacking each other on the
campaign trail.
Desantis took aim at trump, who
is the current front runner.
Governor Desantis: At the end of
the day, leadership is not about
entertainment.
It is not about building a
brand.
It is about results.
William: Trump criticized
Desantis for saying it would
take the next Republican
president two terms, something
former president trump legally
cannot fulfill to get the
country headed in the right
direction.
Pres. Trump: It will take me six
months to have it totally the
way it was.
If it takes eight years to turn
this around, you do not want
him.
William: As this front runner
feud intensifies, the Republican
field is about to get even more
crabbed.
Former vice president Mike pence
and former New Jersey governor
Chris Christie, both one-time
trump allies now turned
adversaries, are set to join the
race as well next week.
All this comes amid do reporting
that seemingly further chips
away at trump's defense about
how he handled those classified
documents.
A lot going on.
Asma, Ron Desantis, we are
seeing him on the campaign trail
for the first time, sparring
with Donald Trump.
Santos has been thought by many
as the obvious "Main rival" to
trump.
Does it still seem that way?
Asma: I think it does.
Public opinion polling has
showed that, but also the
dynamic between these two men,
clearly trump sees the Florida
governor as his main rival, just
hearing the level of attacks
between them.
Clearly he sees that rivalry.
One of the things the Florida
governor needs to try to do to
distinguish himself is built on
this idea of electability.
It is what you often hear him
percent, here his aides suggest.
That he is more electable than
Donald Trump.
That is a big argument for him
to make, but you got a glimpse
this week because he was out
doing some retail campaigning,
and with his wife, telling
stories about being a dad.
Those are stories that Donald
Trump is not really able to tell
in the same way.
Get me, I'm just like you,
right?
[Laughter]
William: Leigh Ann, Desantis is
arguing the GOP has to embrace
the idea of winning.
He keeps bringing up 2020 and
2024 as digs at Donald Trump.
Is that argument resident with
voters?
Leigh Ann: Some Republicans in
congress would also bring up
2018 and 2022 have lost, because
of Donald Trump.
It is still really difficult.
There is still no one like
Donald Trump who has such a
handle on the Republican base.
For his base, the best way to
win is Donald Trump, but he has
proven over and over that he has
been unable to win national
elections.
The difficult thing for Ron
Desantis is no one could be
meaner and more effective on
their attacks than Donald Trump.
Ron Desantis, who is hesitant to
directly attack Donald Trump,
unless he is, as we saw this
week, only when he is talking to
the press, not to voters, it is
a really challenging position.
I am going to go one step
further in the sense that Ron
Desantis is also not willing to
talk about January 6 or the 2020
election as well.
That is a clear way to draw a
contrast with the former
president.
If he is not willing to do that,
what is the difference between
the two?
Just a less better Donald Trump,
maybe.
William: It is a tricky path.
Nikole, we are going to see two
new entrants next week, Chris
Christie and Mike pence.
Do you have a good sense as to
what they think of as their
argument for why they belong in
this race and why they have a
shot at this?
Nikole: Chris Christie has made
clear he is the anti-Trump.
That is the lane he has carved
since day one.
William: To go directly at the
president unlike anybody else.
Nikole: That, and that he is not
the former president.
He is willing to pull those
punches were some of the other
candidates have not.
With respect to Mike pence, it
remains to be seen, because we
have seen him kind of toe the
line between allying himself --
aligning himself with the trump
administration while also
putting some distance between
January 6.
It will be interesting in August
to see how much the gloves come
off between all these
candidates.
Leigh Ann: And who is on the
stage also.
[Laughter]
William: Right.
What is your sense of the
calculus.
Are they all just waiting for a
trump implosion?
Peter: There are two ways to
win, one is to take trump down,
the other is to wait to take
trump down.
They are waiting for jack Smith,
waiting for Georgia, waiting to
see what happens, if he gets a
second indictment, a third
indictment, a fourth indictment,
does that change the calculus?
Republican voters like trump,
but maybe there is too much
baggage here.
That is why Desantis won't go
after him.
Santos doesn't want to alienate
the trump voters.
He wants to be there the minute
trump blows and says I am here
for you, come on board.
It is a gamble.
Nobody knows.
He did better after the first
indictment that he was before,
but the question is whether it
adds up into a cumulative
baggage.
William: Peter is talking about,
one, potential liability for the
president is these looming
indictments.
There was a chip away this week,
it seems, at trump's argument
that he handled the classified
documents in an above-board way.
But is it your sense that --
let's say there were another
indictment to come.
Does that really didn't trump in
a meaningful way, or do you
think is primary voters would
forgive that?
Asma: The primary voters I met
leading up to the midterms,
because I was in Florida doing
reporting when the original
classified document were
discovered in mar-a-lago, did
not seem bothered by this.
Just looking at how he has held
a steady lead in all of the
polls being the front runner, I
don't know that there is any
indication.
It is an interesting
hypothetical.
If there are additional
indictments, will that over time
the love and make people --
build up and make people
question him?
So far, I do not see any
evidence of anything the former
president has done that has
actually led people to question
whether or not they want to vote
for him, at least within the
diehard base.
William: Is that your sense as
well?
Leigh Ann: Yeah, the challenge
is that Donald Trump has done
such an effective job that can
sing his supporters -- at
convincing his supporters that
these investigations are
nonsense, are witchhunts, that
the 2020 election was in fact
stolen, that it was a bunch of
peaceful people on January 6, so
why would a deep state
government investigation and
indictment change any of their
minds?
I am super skeptical that it is
going to have any real impact on
the Republican primary.
The only way it could as if he
can't maybe get on the campaign
trail because he is spending his
time in court and cannot visit
these primary states.
May it will convince some
Republicans to not vote for him.
But conventional wisdom is out
the window, as we have been
talking about for a long time
about Donald Trump.
William: As Leigh Ann is saying,
there is a huge slice of the GOP
base that does not believe
January 6 was such a big deal,
or that the election was somehow
tainted.
It makes sense for anyone who
does not toe that line to punch
through.
Nikole: That is a big part of
it.
Spending a lot of time in
Georgia specifically, and Fulton
county has to deal with election
interference, but a lot of
conservative voters there during
the midterms told me that they
do buy into that and do think
there was some shenanigans going
on during the election.
To your point, yes, it is hard
to convince those voters, but I
would also argue Republicans as
a whole are trying to be very
forward-looking.
There is a lot of reticence to
look back at January 6, back at
2020.
To your earlier question about
Mike pence and some of these
other candidates, it is about
defining how the party is moving
forward.
Under those issues that are key
to the base?
What are the issues of
importance going forward as
opposed to relit getting things
from the past?
You will see that difference in
how candidates litigate their
arguments to voters.
That being said, I think
immigrants continue to rely on
this argument -- Democrats
continue to rely on this
argument about democracy.
Yes, it is about the economy and
reproductive rights, but I think
democracy will play big, but
maybe more so on the democratic
side than the Republican side.
Peter: I do not mean to say he
will implode.
I will say the one thing he has
to his advantage, as we see with
these new candidates coming in,
is a split field.
That is how he got ahead so
conveniently in 2016.
There were 16 other candidates
that never coalesced in
opposition to him.
We are seeing something like
that right now.
The question is will they
coalesce by the end of the year.
William: And the point Nikole is
making here is if you are on a
debate stage and Donald Trump is
there, you cannot avoid those
questions about 2020.
Pence and Haley and Asa
Hutchinson and all of those will
have to speak their mind about
whether they thought the
election was stolen.
That is going to put a lot of
them on the spot and maybe in
the crosshairs of GOP primary
voters.
Peter: Most of these people are
on record saying they do not
think the election was stolen,
or at least giving that
indication.
Nikki Haley, my pants, Chris
Christie have said that, Asa
Hutchinson.
When it is said that trump is a
loser, it means he really did
lose in 2020.
We'll see how that is handled
all the big stage.
William: Last question, we saw
president Biden last night after
he was giving a speech at the
air force academy stumble and
fall.
That was immediately picked up
on across conservative media,
Donald Trump at his town hall
last night on Fox News talked
about it at length.
How much of president Biden's
age and mental acuity is going
to focus by the GOP?
Asma: You hear from democratic
voters who are concerned about
his age.
The question I would say is to
us -- is who is on the
Republican side, because Donald
Trump is not particularly
younger.
Leigh Ann: I agree, and it
brings into question, Harris
too.
-- Brings into question, Harris
too.
People think about 46 years
later.
Nikole: I think it was
interesting that Donald Trump
says his fall was not inspired,
but he also referenced his own
tripping on the stage, so it
happens to everybody.
Peter: On the same day he gets a
big deal through, he also
stumbles and falls.
A great advantage of being